this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

This is the most extreme way of sacrificing yourself, there are Buddhist monks who did the same against Vietnam war if I remember correctly.

He will be remembered after Palestine is liberated, RIP! ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

RIP. Very brave, at least tried to do something and override media censorship.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Please keep comments respectful or go touch some grass.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I believe both Ansarallah and the Palestinian resistance have both issued statements honoring him so at least the most impacted people see his actions as valid and revolutionary.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The fact that major news networks are talking about this is a victory for him. This is something you can't just sweep under the rug.

Sadly, Israeli intel assets are doing everything they can to smear him as an insane man. Whether he was mentally ill or not is irrelevant since he got what he wanted.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Everyone is mentally ill. Those who support the genocide aren't sane , that's clear.

Those who protest the genocide are smeared as lunatics while being sane

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

kinda extreme, but that's what a person with empathy and disgust for injustice probably would do after killing or helping to kill thousands of innocent people with such violence

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Rest in peace, hero...

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I wish he didn't do this but he is a hero nonetheless. Knocking this guy or saying he should have sought therapy is therapy fetishism and "leftists" promoting this line of thinking are just frauds. They will readily trade in radicalism to be a plus one at the liberal party.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

There is nothing radical about what dude did.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Nothing radical about setting oneself on fire as a protest?

Dear god you hasbara are nuts.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Fr, i can't believe how lib'd up people are rn.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Sincerely go fuck yourself you cowardly piece of shit.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Livestreaming it was a smart move, I don't think this story would have had anywhere near this much attention if not for the video.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Atlanta woman didn't get any attention.

Hell, they didn't even report she was a woman...

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago
[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Welp. Wonder how the empire is gonna respond to this.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

They're not going to do anything, i dont know why people are expecting something.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Bury it then "Look! Aliens!!" if it doesn't die.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Aparently NPR still does not know why he did it

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Obviously a lone wolf attack

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If you come into any thread on this topic flailing quips about how this dude was a scumbag and deserved it, this genocide has drained you of your morale and your conscience and you need to take a step back and re-examine the words coming out of your mouth. His action was idealistic yes but it was also a horrible fucking tragedy. He saw the genocide just like us and he was lost and confused of what to do about it. He did the only thing he thought would make people look and gave his life to do it and people still shit on his corpse. Have some fucking respect. He saw what we all saw, this horrific fucking genocide and was overwhelmed by the terror and did the only thing he thought made sense.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yep, he literally did more than the entirety of the Gulf states combined.

Also, so what he was a troop. He saw the right side, I am the last person for troop worship, but he saw something wrong and acted. He was also only 25. There are people who will tolerate the most racist xenophobic warmonger friends and relatives twice or three times this guy's age because they PERSONALLY know them and then will shit on this guy.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Yes idealistic is the way to appraise this.

He was born to certain material circumstances, was in a situation as part of something oppressive. Became conscious but lacked the materialist analysis (intentionally denied to him via propaganda) to really evaluate and understand. He acted with heart, with courage, but the effect of such actions while showing great personal moral fortitude and resolve is a sad reminder of how far we have to go in educating the proletariat of the west. He found himself awake in a nightmarish system with no escape, no real understanding of its basis, his world, the lies told to him as a child (and adult) crumbling down around him as he watched untold horrors unfold with no way to stop or slow them. He felt the pain as many of us feel the pain seeing people slaughtered in a genocide that his government was enabling. It doesn't matter that he didn't see through other acts of the US military, it matters he saw through this one and wasn't silent and felt strongly enough to be more than passive.

He's a martyr the same way someone who died protesting lack of medical care on a sidewalk is. He may not be worthy of a place in some future hall of peoples heroes, of comrades, cadres who died in the revolution, in educating others, in state anti-com action, but he's worthy of acknowledging now as someone on the right side of history. As someone braver and better than every scumbag journalist on television who reports on the genocide in a "balanced and neutral" (read: pro-genocide, zionist propagandist mouthpiece) manner. Braver and better than every liberal who tries to make excuses for Biden, who tries to both-sides the genocide, who demands people vote blue and claim he is the lesser evil. This was an unremarkable man undertaking an action that likely won't result in any real material change, and yet he did more, tried harder, was truer to the ideal of being against genocide than every simpering, disgusting liberal excuse-maker.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Can think of a couple people in this thread whose comments on this matter warrant discipline.

Already banned one from the comm I moderate on hexbear.

Fucking calling this "performative liberal virtue signaling" is so fucking disgusting coming from a supposed comrade.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

at least sabotage something before immolating yourself, this kind of protest is nonsense.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Something similar could be said about hamas' flood operation. That it achieved nothing, other than zionists fury.

Hopefully his sacrifice, from his own in-empire position, could get some political traction? Unlikely, but not impossible, I think.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

??? They did material damage to the israeli military, it is insane that you compare these two things.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Considering he was an asset to the US military, he technically did material damage to the US military too...

The material damage done my hamas against the IDF was mostly political, and could only be assessed months after the attack because of the repercussion of actions of Israeli government. If the political setback wasn't there, the attack would have been just a "terror suicide attack against party goers".

I think the odds for nothing much to have happened were pretty high at the time. Just like many times before.

I think this man's acts are likely to result in nothing. But it was an attack against the US military forces image. What happens from it depends on the political agents now. The US media and military, the international media, and peer to peer social networks.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

You cannot be serious downplaying the Oct7 operation, it was a massive success for Hamas. Might very well be the most succesful operation against Israel or the US in the region and you're downplaying it and even putting it side to side to a guy killing himself in protest, get this idealistic nonsense out of here.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Objectively, and immediately, what oct7 achieved? An incursion into occupied territory and a number of hostages captured. Did I miss anything?

Assuming I didn't miss anything immense, In the grand scheme of matters, by itself, it doesn't hurt Israel that much.

Great operational success, but if Israel did absolutely nothing, it would have faded from the international news cycle in 2 weeks. Some pressure would have boiled internally, and Netanyahu would have been removed from power and prosecuted for corruption, finally. But, again, by itself, nothing would have changed in material conditions for the Palestinian cause.

What do you think I'm missing, here?

The unfolding desperation of fascist elites in Israel caused an international backlash of huge proportions. Which was apparently the actual goal of hamas. Also with great success. My point is that there was a risk that that actual goal didn't obtain success. The conditions were right, and success unfolded. Good.

With this case, I think it's too early to evaluate the unfolding impact of this act on internal public opinion of US population.

Operationally, it was successful. Guy went there, did his thing, hurt no civilians, got media coverage, is not suffering anymore. Without any unfolding from external actors, it's likely to go nowhere. Are the conditions right to have this go somewhere? It's a long shot, but let's hope so.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

They killed soldiers including high ranking officers, they destroyed military equipment and military infrastructure, they did MATERIAL DAMAGE to their military capabilities. The sum of material victories is what wins wars, not fucking vibes on media, you understand this right? JFC it's not that hard. Guy killing himself does NOTHING to Israel military capabilities, NOTHING.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Hey listen comrade, when thousands of brown men die for Palestine they did nothing, But this one white guy setting himself on fire will bring down the empire trust me bro.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

White saviour complex at its best.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I forgot about the high ranking officers, good point.

Still, by itself, it didn't change the policial landscape! By itself, it's barely a victory. Some destruction and violence. Some humiliation. Some setbacks, but Israel and its allies could easily recover from it. To call it a material victory, by itself? It's a stretch.

It was a very successful, heroic, hail mary, though. For the mistakes it caused the zionists to commit, and the support it gathered from the international community, it strengthens the Palestinian cause.

By themselves, Palestinians can't achieve a military victory against Israel and its allies. They barely had (and still barely have) support of neighboring Arab countries. Iran isn't an Arab country. Unfortunately media vibes was kind of a last hope, in this case. That's where the material victory was.

Let's hope Mr burning man sparks something bigger than himself.

I wish I could make the point shorter. Thanks for the conversation, comrade.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Still, by itself, it didn't change the political landscape!

What? You can't just look at the operation by itself, you also must consider what led to that point and what happens after. You pointed out the impact Oct 7 had yourself.

These events do not happen in a vacuum and should not be considered so.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We're going full circle here.

I agree! My point is: despite the low effectiveness of similar actions (self immolation as a form of protest) in the past, oct7 makes me hopeful that this self immolation case could spark some change, since it's now reasonable to think that conditions may allow for larger implications in the core of imperialism.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I got the point you made here from your other comments and agree, but I guess what I'm missing is what is the point of arguing about the events individually accomplished?

Sure, they appear to us as discrete events, but even this event is tied to the events of Oct 7. It seems pointless to argue that any of these individual events has had relatively little impact on the status quo when they are all connected and the sum total of their impact will be what influences further events.

So what's the point of arguing them individually aside from just finding something to argue about?

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

It was a response to comrade arguing that this kind of protest is nonsense, and that some sabotaging should have been done.

It reminded me that at first sight, for me, the hamas attack also looked like a nonsense suicidal attack, but later we could make some sense of it.

I was trying to sustain that because oct7 wasn't nonsense, maybe this case wasn't either.

But I can agree some sabotaging would have been welcome. :)

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