Technology

Yep.

It's straightforward, just works, on every device. Like messengers did years ago.

Easy to login to a new device and instantly start messaging there, with history - just need a current device to verify you.

It's why I use it. I'd happily use it for friends and family, if I could get them on board. At least it's not WhatsApp, or something from Google that will die sometime soon.

What self-aggrandizing? Where is this about me?

Going public makes companies beholden to stock valuations, not what the users want. Which means Telegram will be even less useful for privacy and security minded folks.

Just like other public systems, you become the product.

Also, don't put words in my mouth, and take your condescending attitude and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

Show some integrity.

Agreed on all points.

I really, really appreciate what Signal is doing, and used it for a while, had some success converting people, then they dropped SMS support. That killed any ability to get more converts, and existing users left. I keep it around as a fallback for exactly 2 people.

The UI part of this problem is massive, especially initial setup. It's why SMS is still primary in the US - people can't be bothered. It's so frustrating.

It's also why I'm looking to host my own, with SimpleX in the lead (for now). Since I'll manage it, I can mitigate that setup/management pain somewhat (at least for family and close friends). Perhaps that's the way to get the onto something else. I'm also hoping SimpleX will continue to improve the user experience, especially around multiple devices.

I'm still considering messengers, and it'll be probably end of the year before I do anything.

Your condescending tone would be fine if you knew what you were talking about.

Xmpp was designed for ease of federation and simplicity in implementation. Most messaging apps these days are designed, or at least say they are designed, with privacy first.

XMPP was designed when encrypting metadata wasn't considered that important (like with mail), and E2EE for actual messages between users was done via PGP or OTR, so didn't require any support in the protocol itself.

There probably

You should have read at least something about XMPP first, no? Then you'd know something without "probably".

are plugins for xmpp to allow for e2e encryption and contact list and metadata privacy from server admins but that depends on the server and will probably not be as secure as signal.

First, honest E2EE for messages themselves never requires server support, that's the whole point of it. As I've said before, for that one can use PGP functionality in most normal clients if that's enough, one can use OTR, but it's still not fit for usage with multiple devices simultaneously.

Second, XMPP has OMEMO which is basically everything good about security from Signal, just for XMPP. That's what we usually use today with XMPP, making your comment wrong.

I'd say most people here value privacy and security more,and average users value convenience with no understanding of the tradeoff.

And that's our challenge.

I suspect that normies subconsciously want all popular messaging services to be insecure.

Hahah, you have a point, even if it's a bit hyperbolic.

And if a service is secure, then, that normie thinks, it's either a scam or at least something that movies have not prepared them for. Same with encrypting mail.

Oh boy, so true.

No, it's federated. Like Lemmy. But without ActivityPub, of course, it didn't exist.

But Diaspora instances usually had XMPP for private messages IIRC.

No XMPP app has that? I'm kind of surprised. I don't pay a lot of attention to XMPP apps, though I've used them here and there.

Biggest use I find for them today is to integrate with tools like MAXXS, which is OK for some automation with mobile devices. Sort of as a backbone comm channel.

I kind of blame myself - as I said, I was using it years ago, but I never evangelized it with friends/family - I'm not a salesman, and my patience is non-existent for people who are stubborn ostriches.