this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
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I've been seeing a lot of anti-voting sentiment going around. Can't believe I have to say this, but you need to vote. Not only is there more to the election than just the president. (State policy, Senate, house), but not voting is not an act of protest. C'mon guys

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[–] [email protected] 147 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Seriously. I get feeling like you don't have much of a choice, but not voting is just giving up. Like, you're actively removing the little choice you have and handing democracy over to an overt fascist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

both wouldn't be happy if you wanted actual democracy (like economic democracy for instance). both will utilize the police and alphabet agencies if they will find it necessary. PRISM was exposed under Obama. Democrats Kennedy and Johnson did not stop COINTELPRO. I'm not even convinced by reducing this to which of them will be weaker and less competent, like you realize the senile octogenarian Biden would fit the description, but that actually makes it easier to control him. Trump on the other hand is harder to control for his own trustees, but at the same time would mean way less stability. Ousting either along with the whole system that brought them into power is a must and I'm quite convinced that it will not be an easy task in either case, especially if you consider that the police force is always a fertile ground for all of the most disgusting trash of the ruling class, like homophobia, racism or hatred towards the poor. Democrats can promise defending the police but will they? Or wouldn't that be shooting themselves not in one foot, but both?

And lastly, speaking of another Trumpist coup. The situation in the US is not yet comparable with e.g. Spain in the 30s. But back to Biden's incompetency, y'all should study how the Azaña's government absolutely botched the coup in July 1936. Then the lack of sufficient cynicism towards the government with "anarchists" taking ministerial positions and disarming the workers was what largely contributed to the Francoist triumph. With no illusions towards the government, there would be no mechanism to blunt the militant social tensions to come but force. And if you are afraid to actually fight for your ideas, you're already unfree.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Third party candidates still exist and are legitimate options to vote for despite what everyone wants you to believe.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

I'm voting for a 3rd party in the general bc my state is a staunchly blue state (every presidential election since 1972) so my vote counts more that way. If I lived in a swing state like WI, PA, GA, AZ, CO, etc, I would definitely vote Dem.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

In the realities of the US electoral system, a vote for a third party is akin to a vote for Trump. Twist and spin all you want, but that’s reality.

Anyone who argues this is either naive, or a disinformation Russian asset.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Why isnt a third party vote a vote for biden?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

While technically "possible", the likelihood of Trump supporters switching to vote 3rd party is very low at this point.

Just about everyone talking about voting third party is a progressive that would have voted for Biden. If they weren't being duped by Russians.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Explain "duped by Russians", and how trump voters are not being duped by Russians while unconvinced biden voters are.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

They are being duped by Russians… into voting for Trump. But anyway, the question is who the third party voter would have voted for otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 9 months ago (3 children)

3rd party is a lost vote. Parties need to start small and build. Everyone knows this.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And how can those small third parties grow if people don't vote for them?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Got them into local positions and let them build power in the lower levels before moving up. Voting at the federal level for anyone other than the big two is a wasted vote at this time

[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago

Start small, at the local level. City, county, school board, or even a state representative. You build up a following starting at a smaller level because there are fewer people to have to convince to vote for you.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe for some local elections. But you really need heavy support, otherwise you're dividing the vote which can lead to more harm. Some places have rank based voting now though which makes it possible to vote for 3rd parties without dividing the vote. Hopefully that becomes more common.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I get where you're coming from. I'm definitely in favour of a ranked choice voting approach cause it does a lot more to get rid of the spoiler or dividing vote fallacy.

The entire spoiler or dividing vote hoax is based on this false assumption that the voters carry the responsibility for not voting for a "lesser evil" candidate when that burden of responsibility should instead be on the nominee for not doing enough in their power to win over votes.

With the current election, Biden is being a complete dumbass and is hemorrhaging support from Arab Americans and young people because of his refusal to stop giving weapons and aid to Israel and properly withholding those until a full and permanent ceasefire is reached. He's also losing support from Hispanics, though the reasons there are more to do with how he hasn't been doing enough to better the lives of working-class people.

Arab Americans and young people aren't going to turn around and vote for Trump, or in the off chance he receives a conviction before November, whoever else the Republican nominee will be. They're more likely to vote third-party or independent or not vote at all, and unfortunately with the latter, that's when the burden of responsibility becomes shared.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Ah a Trump supporter! Let me know how that works out for you!

Question? How did Trump treat Arabs last time? Did they enjoy the travel ban? The exponential increase in hate towards them in this country?

Once Trump, wins and helps Israel turn Gaza to glass, will helping him win make them feel good? Once Trump puts them in concentration camps in this country, will they be happy?

When, Trump cements his dictatorship so there is no vote in 2028, will they they be satisfied?

I don't like Biden, but not supporting him now, is supporting a repeat of 1930s Germany...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The entire spoiler or dividing vote hoax is based on this false assumption that the voters carry the responsibility for not voting for a "lesser evil" candidate when that burden of responsibility should instead be on the nominee for not doing enough in their power to win over votes

No, that’s just plain incorrect. The spoiler vote phenomenon is an inevitable consequence of our first-past-the-post election system. Whatever you start from, this voting system trends to two parties over time. You can model this and watch it play out. It’s not a hoax. We even saw Ross Perot make a serious run at the presidency in the 90s, and he ended up with zero electoral votes, and 4 years later he did much worse and his Reform party fizzled out and nothing came of it. Because it is absolutely suboptimal in our voting system.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago

Literally, indeed. (An up vote wasn't enough)