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Labor will announce home battery rebate in “coming days,” says federal treasurer
(reneweconomy.com.au)
this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
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It costs half the price of a new EV to replace the battery. Buying a second hand EV means you have no idea how the battery has been treated, and you know the clock is already ticking until you have to shell out a massive amount of $ for a new battery.
Have you actually bought a second hand EV?
Why on earth would I do that based on my post?
It was a facetious question. Clearly you wouldn't with such misguided preconceptions.
“Misguided preconceptions” lolololol
Any battery powered device that costs more to replace the battery than it costs to buy a new device is not a smart purchase when it’s close to or outside of its warranty period. The risk is not worth it.
It’s like you don’t even understand the point being made. If a EV battery was good for “the life of the car” (let’s say 350,000km or 20 years) then the warranty would be 350,000km or 20 years, wouldn’t it?
Answer me this - why is the battery warranty 8 years / 100,000km with 70% capacity (or whatever the km limit is, can’t remember off the top of my head)? Why don’t they guarantee it for 15 years? 20 years?
An incorrect assumption you have made is that batteries fail at a higher rate than major components on an ICE car. It’s a misunderstanding of the relative risk. Like how people hop in their car every day no worries but are afraid to fly.
Also is 100,000 miles or 160,000 km, not 100,000 km as the current warranty standard. And like any new technology, they really don't know exactly how long they are going to last, so at this stage manufacturers are hedging their bets.
https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/new-data-reveals-the-battery-life-in-used-electric-vehicles/
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/assurances-on-battery-health-could-boost-used-ev-sales-report/
Again missing the point. My assumption wasn’t that batteries fail at a higher rate than “major components” on an ICE car - it was that if/when the battery fails it’s exponentially more expensive than any component failing on a ICE car.
If you buy a $50k ICE car and the entire engine dies out of warranty (which isn’t what happens generally, just parts of it would), a whole new engine will cost you probably $3k-$4k installed. Battery dies out of warranty on a $50k EV? ~$20k to replace……for a car that’s worth probably $10k by then.
Do you see the difference? One means you literally send the car to the wreckers and have no car, the other means you’re back on the road in the same car a week or 2 later.
You are lowballing the cost of replacing an engine significantly: it MIGHT be as low as $3000, it could be over $10,000. You also are completely ignoring the plethora of moving parts in an ICE vehicle that can fail. The drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. This makes for a massive reduction in maintenance costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, which you also don't take into consideration in total cost of ownership.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/09/06/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking-updated/
A new engine for a 7+ year old out of warranty car that cost as much as a mass market EV is NOT going to cost you $10k.
And yes, there are more parts in conventional cars, but most parts are cheap to repair/replace. There’s no $20k part that WILL need replacing like there is in a EV. There’s no part that will make your car get less mileage every year.
Where is this guy egregiously wrong, in your opinion?
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/Lk7fWVIEVX
Saying that on average a EV battery will last you 400k miles for one lol.
There’s also the fact that it will need to be charged more and more frequently the older the car gets, as battery capacity reduces.
Then there’s the fact that one is a twin turbo performance car, the other is a family car.
Also the fact that electricity prices have been absolutely soaring the last few years, with no end in sight, while petrol prices have remained static for years.
I think that's already been proven, at least in the case of Teslas, that the batteries DO actually last that long on average?
Batteries that lose range but still functioning generally are being swapped out but then sold as house batteries, still incredibly useful and bigger than most house batteries. So they are not a total loss and largely still functioning. Newer battery systems allow swap out of individual cells.
If you look in the comments, someone swapped out the BMW to a cheap ICE car and the Tesla was still cheaper, lol.
I don't know where you are but electricity prices here have been going down as we add more renewables to the grid. Most EV owners have solar, and mostly charge for less or free from home - I'm one of them.
It has not been proven that Tesla and ev batteries last that long on average.
The more renewables that are added to the grid the higher electricity prices go.
Swapping a petrol guzzling twin turbo bmw for a fuel efficient small diesel car will swing the cost calculation significantly favour of the ICE car. EV cars cost significantly more than ICE cars in their segment.
Dude. I've provided the receipts with literally every post. You have provided nothing. Give it up already, you are ideologically hamstrung and unable to accept that you are wrong.
You haven’t provided receipts, you’ve provided baseless pro-EV guesses and terribly inaccurate guesstimates.
You still can’t accept that buying a second hand EV, especially one out of warranty, is a massive risk.
The market agrees with me. Second hand EV sales, especially out of warranty ones, are immensely unpopular.
Given the EV market is barely a decade old, I think it's a bit soon to make such ridiculous claims, that myself and others have given many, many sources of facts (not feelings, which is literally all you are providing).
It's clear you are quite happy being influenced by scary propaganda c/o the oil industry - you're still living in 2019 in Scummo's "ruined weekend" land.
And having a peek at your other activity, I'd like to echo some others opinions - you really don't belong here, maybe just leave, troll. You are tedious and just seem to want a fight with anyone who will take your bait. Boring.
You posting pro-ev site propaganda sources doesn’t help your cause lol
People don’t want second hand EVs precisely because of the battery warranty issue.
https://evcentral.com.au/shock-report-used-evs-are-losing-value-faster-in-australia-and-taking-longer-to-sell/
I don’t even need to look at your profile to know that you’re like a Bowen loving “renewables” grifter.
What’s hilarious is like I said way back at the start of this - my next car will be an EV, likely a Tesla. I’ve been a fan of them and following closely since the roadster. You ignore that though because I don’t just blindly ignore all inconvenient truths about them.
Also I am a moderator here so just watch where you’re going with that last paragraph.
From the article you linked:
"Factors contributing to used EV sales trends cited by the report authors included:
The authors of the report did caution the EV pricing findings were volatile because of the small amount of vehicles involved."
I would say the biggest issue is likely that new EVs are coming rapidly down in price, with longer range, so a second hand EV is comparatively not as good value currently. Many people are waiting for slightly bigger batteries or different types of ev, and I've seen at least half a dozen BYD Sharks on the road, one I talked to the guy had literally bought it yesterday, and many of them are getting tax benefits to buy new.
You are making out it's all about battery concern where there's much more going on.
So, you're a moderator in a politics community, and you troll in various places on Lemmy, and like to threaten if you are challenged. Interesting.
Can't help wondering if the other mods here might want to look into whether that's a good thing... or not.
I have the notification of your deleted comment so I can see what you said, so I’ll address it.
No, I didn’t delete anything. You can check the mod log.
There was no “threat inherent” in my post. As a moderator would you prefer I tell you when you’re veering off into breaking the rules, or not and then just ban you when you continued? I simply told you to watch where you’re going with the accusations of trolling - and more importantly the “you don’t belong here” comment. You don’t get to gatekeep here. You have no right telling anyone that they don’t belong here, or accusing them of being a troll. That’s bordering breaking the rules, which I pointed out.
It’s entirely appropriate mod behaviour, telling people they’re getting close to breaking the rules. Calling people trolls because you disagree with them, and telling them they don’t belong in a public community is not appropriate member behaviour, hence why I told you to watch what you’re doing.
Accusing me of deleting your comment is, again, borderline unacceptable and starting to push it.
I’m not going to ban you for any of this like you want me to, but if you break the rules flagrantly a moderator will take action, even if it’s not me.
Like to threaten? Lol good one. I told you that accusing me of trolling and saying I don’t belong here is starting to go too far. I didn’t threaten you, I didn’t give you a warning, I didn’t take any mod action. I didn’t take any action when you were name calling or throwing out other snide remarks, because that’s not a mod-worthy problem. I told you to reel it in.
Telling people they’re “trolls” and that they don’t belong in a community simply because you disagree with them is not on though, and I think any mod would agree on that. Nothing I have posted anywhere can even remotely considered “trolling”, unless of course you consider anything anyone you don’t like says to be “trolling”.
Look at you “threatening” to try and get me cancelled because I told you to calm it down a bit lol. You’re behaving like a child. Really you’re threatening me with what you just said lol.
I think the ratio on your comments Lemmy-wide speaks for itself. If it quacks etc etc. Maybe think about how you come across to people, and if you've been called a troll and blocked multiple times by people on a variety of communities, then perhaps some self reflection might be warranted.
The ratio? I assume you’re talking about upvotes/downvotes as if they mean anything other than to point out the political leanings of the people on Lemmy, which we all know is borderline communist at worst (and far, far left at best).
For example saying “Illegal immigrants should be deported” almost anywhere on Lemmy will get you mass downvoted. Saying “Karmelo Anthony is a murderer who should spend the rest of his life in jail” will get you downvoted to oblivion almost anywhere on Lemmy.
It’s not a reflection on me, It’s merely a reflection of the political leanings of the population here. Are you saying that anyone that says things that go against the echo chamber - of which Lemmy is most certainly an echo chamber - is a troll and should leave/be banned?
Since you want to go there, show me what exactly you disagree with in my posts.
Touching on your banning comment - If you look at my moderation history I was banned from 2 communities (on the one instance) I’ve never so much as commented on because the person that was disagreeing with me (who just so happens to be very active on that instance) obviously got me banned for no reason other than he disagrees.
Again - banned from a place I’ve literally never posted, commented, or voted on, because someone couldn’t help but abuse their mod power. Apart from that it’s a bunch of nothing.
I bet you can’t even see the irony in what you’re saying though. Trying to get me “cancelled” and have my moderator status taken off because we’re having a disagreement and I told you to just cool your jets with the attempted gatekeeping and accusations…..yet I’m the one who needs to do some “self reflection”?
This has now gone beyond a thread derailment and is borderline harassment and bad faith arguing, so I’m telling you now - this is the end of this personal attacking from you. If you want to continue you are welcome to PM me, but you will not detail this thread anymore with this vendetta of yours.
This isn’t a “threat”, it’s simply telling you that this is not acceptable.
Understand?
@Whirlybird @kudra
The condition of a used EV depends on how it's been treated. EVs are not alone in that.
In general, the battery of a modern EV can be expected to last for the useful life of the vehicle. "... scientists discovered that battery replacements were very rare, with only about 1.5 percent of EVs needing a replacement – and almost all of those replacements were under warranty."
https://www.greencars.com/expert-insights/research-shows-ev-battery-replacements-very-rare
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
A small study by a pro EV company, reported on by a pro EV site......yeah nah lol.
The warranty is what matters. Unless an EV is 10% of its sale price, if it's even within 2 years of its warranty on the battery ending it's no deal. Might it last 10 years past the warranty retaining ~70% of its capacity? Sure. It's possible. Could it also just drop dead at the drop of a hat, or capacity just drop like a rock? Absolutely. One of those scenarios will cost you almost the price of a new car, the other won't.
Yet you can only assert your belief @Whirlybird
Even a little trustworthy evidence would enhance your credibility.
"... generally, EV batteries are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle ..."
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need-to-be-replaced
I can keep providing references all day, if you want.
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
And that lifetime is what, 8 years according to their warranty?
You can provide references for whatever you want, but like I said - the warranty is what matters. If the manufacturer warranty is for x years, anything after that is not guaranteed and is a massive risk because of how expensive the replacement is. This isn't hard to understand.
You might think there's no risk in buying an electric car that's out of warranty (or approaching the end of its warranty), but the tens of thousands of dollars you'd have to pay to replace the battery 1/2/5 years down the track says otherwise.
@Whirlybird
The average warranty for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles varies depending on the manufacturer and region, but typically falls within the range of 3 to 7 years, with some up to 10.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/best-car-warranties-revealed-118462/
So you're saying that ICE vehicles typically last 10 years or less.
There are risks in buying anything, new or used. The warranty is just a limited guarantee.
It used to be said of ICE vehicles that they'd never replace the horse. The big problem being that you can't grow the fuel.
With EVs, at least power points are pretty common. That wasn't the case for petrol stations, back in the day.
It's a management issue. The adaptable survived. You're just proving that you're not a survivor.
https://afma.org.au/new-ev-batteries-may-last-beyond-vehicle-lifetime-study/
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
A EV battery replacement is multiples of times more expensive than an engine replacement on basically any non-supercar lol.
You've made some bad arguments but that one knocks it out of the park.
@Whirlybird
Except that EV batteries rarely need replacement. As I've proven time and time again.
Clearly, you have a belief system that is not supported by reality.
https://www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com/news/uk-research-shows-evs-now-match-lifespan-of-ice-vehicles.html
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
Except when they don’t, at which time you’ll be out of pocket tens of thousands of dollars.
People like you are insufferable. EVs are awesome, but they’re not perfect and they’re a much bigger risk buying second hand.
@Whirlybird @DropBear Whirlybird that’s Bulls..t and now you are blocked.
@Whirlybird
Nothing's perfect. The survivors are those who can work with reality.
The fact that you're unable to substantiate you assertions repeatedly proves my point.
https://www.energyandclimate.qld.gov.au/energy/vehicles-and-energy/electric-vehicles/fact-check#battery-lifespan
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
So again, anyone buying an EV that is close to or older than 8 years old is taking a massive financial risk. Every link you post confirms this yet you think it’s proving your point lol
Correct, new EVs have even better batteries than first gen too. My first EV I replaced the battery, but not because they're was anything wrong with it: that battery likely would have lasted at least twice as long, but an enterprising engineer created a battery upgrade that doubled the original range in the same footprint, and we can expect further improvements in batteries, so I expect to upgrade again in future, maybe 10-15 years, and double the range again.
Old EV batteries can be reused and make ideal off grid house batteries.