Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You're not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you're making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It's downright selfish imho.
Liberals aren't left. I like this take by Phil Ochs
"In every American community, you have varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Get it?"
Nearing on sixty years, and this song never gets old. 🖤
i think they'd rather some other candidate win. that's probably why they're voting for some other candidate
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
Far lefter than anything the repugnicunts are fronting these decades.
Arguably they're more left than the right is left.
They're realistically though the closest thing we have. They absolutely do less damage when in office. If you actually want things to get better. We have to stop doing damage or at least slow down the damage first. It's basic logic.
I've about given up. It seems as though most of lemmy is more than happy to smugly let the perfect destroy the good.
I'm sure the additional dead kids in Palestine and Ukraine and very likely most of the middle east and Europe or Russia (depending on how NATO fares after the US leaves) will thank them for voting for RFK Jr or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse. I don't think my daughter will thank them when she gets sent to federally mandated "don't be gay" camp or has to hide who she is for the rest of her life but hey, at least we made a point. Just like vaccines, sometimes I guess we have to suffer as a species to remember things.
Man, I'm jaded today.
You have to remember a lot of the people posting that bs likely aren't Americans and either have an anti western agenda or are being paid to post divisive shit. It's annoying because Lemmy is such a small community that these accounts appear wayyyyy more than they really should, so it gives the impression that there's loads of them, but really they are a minority. Chances are they also have a bunch of smurf accounts so it could literally just be one room of guys posting mountains of bullshit every day.
"anti-west" ... i mean... where is marx from? proudhon? bakhunin? foucault?
anti-west is a reactionary dogwhistle for "commie scum". it's red scare bullshit.
and anyone who uses the term uniroically now is an actual white nationalist, a paid cia shill, or someone who has bought into the rhetoric of one of the first two, with or without realizing it.
and you know what, i love that you went on the attack here. this is the lesson i learned in 2016: we live in a post-truth world, no one will believe anything except what they want to believe, so there is no point in defending a position. don't apologize. don't backpedal. attack, attack, attack.
he wrote the usa patriot act and the crime bill. he stopped student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy. bill clinton pushed "welfare reform". obama destroyed habeas corpus, murdering a us citizen without trial. kids-in-cages is an obama era policy. obama signed taarp.
i don't believe they do less damage at all.
I believe that you believe that. But I also know that your belief in that doesn't make it true. Whether or not one approves of Obama's actions with drones overseas. Which for the record I don't. He didn't end habeas corpus. You are being hyperbolic and disingenuous. Despite my disproval of it. It was a one-time thing with some fairly decent justification behind it. That hasn't led to any actual policy changes that could be pointed out.
The Patriot Act per Wikipedia
Completely unsurprising. You're lying again. To be fair Biden did claim credit. Stupid liberal doin stupid liberal things.
As far as TARP was concerned. Was there anything they could have realistically done that you would have approved of? No? Then why should we care what you think. Yes, tarp was a bit of a crock of shit. But unfortunately it was the best we were going to get and it was a good thing that we did get it ultimately.
As far as blocking student loan debt from being expunged with bankruptcy. Yes, stupid liberal doing stupid liberal things. However, Biden is also been one of the most active pushing for forgiveness of student loan debt. Could you be any more fake or disingenuous?
what's Joe Biden lying too?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act
I pointed out that he claimed that. Seems you missed that part. Well if you were being genuine. But I don't mistake you for being genuine. It isn't recorded anywhere that I could find that he wrote it. Joe, Biden claiming that he did only means that he claims that he did. It doesn't mean that he did.
this is another accusation of disingenuity that is, itself, evidence of bad faith engagement.
Not at all. I'm simply pointing out the facts as recorded. Joe Biden made a claim. There is no record showing his claim to be true. Bad faith engagement is claiming that something is true without proof. Which you don't actually have.
I do think it's possible that Biden may have had some input on the bill. But the fact remains that you all are absolutely arguing in bad faith. Misrepresenting the facts and evidence available.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_of_1995
aw, fuck!
another bad faith accusation.
everything they said was right. your accusation of disengenuity is itself bad faith. just because you don't believe somebody could be to the left of Joe Biden and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton doesn't make you right.
thank you
they're not calling it a protest, either. they're calling it a vote.
no it doesn't. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.