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America has a FTTP voting system, so time has distilled its presidential election into to 2 real choices. This was one, and the milquetoast status quo party is the other. By that merit, not voting for one party helps the other party, though not as much as voting for the opposite. In our case, the opponent of the milquetoast party is the crypto Nazi party.
I'm not the other person you replied to, but personally I think there was a clear choice between the two candidates in regard to which one was better for the Palestinians given their track records. Granted, maybe not good enough in these voters opinions, given that they enabled a genocide in the first place and refused to swiftly correct that action.
Besides billionaires and straight, white, conservative, "Christian" men, I honestly don't know who benefits from a Trump/Musk presidency as compared to a Harris/Walz presidency.
I get that democrats weren't good enough, they rarely are in my opinion either, but I do consider them better than this. And yep, she and Biden enabled a genocide, no argument there. I even empathize with those that feel adamant that either we have justice all, or justice for none. But I think we are a little frustrated that in the fatalistic protest, Kamala's opponents ensured the doom of not just Palestinians, but women, LGBT+ folk, and likely many more.
But hey, price of eggs and all too, right?
Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of every story about Gaza being filled with smug comments blaming everything on liberal Lemmy members. Biden was a shit candidate who was losing badly before Gaza ever happened. Harris was a golden opportunity to pivot the Biden campaign into something that stood a chance of winning and instead Harris ran on a campaign of "I'm exactly like Biden but a little younger" which is the most gobsmackingly stupid decision of a political campaign in at least a couple decades.
Harris didn't lose because of Palestine. I mean it didn't fucking help, but there were plenty of other reasons she lost. So can we please stop with all the annoying smug "are you happy with what you did?" comments? It's getting really fucking old.
Now for what I actually wanted to say.
Only billionaires are benefiting. Straight, white, conservative, Christian or even men, none of those groups in any combination is benefiting. They may not be getting shafted as hard as others are, but only billionaires are going to see anything even remotely positive out of this.
Thiel is white and certainly not straight, and I guarantee he is immensely benefiting.
There was a poll of non-voters who voted four years ago. The number one reason they gave for not voting was the genocide in Gaza at 29%. I was surprised by this, but yeah you can potentially say she lost because of Palestine.
I agree she was a shit candidate who, if anything, aimed to the right of Biden. The Democrats are terrible. I still voted against Donald Trump. I'm not here to gloat at all, but look at the situation the world is in now.
Sorry hearing "We told ya so" is so irritating to you. The collective focus will shift over time.
You're right, Harris absolutely lost because she wasn't good enough. But yeah, people are going to remind you that the alternative is worse, so that hopefully we can avoid this if there ever is a next time.
Or you could stop and build a string coalition with an action plan.
I am actively looking to join one as soon as there is momentum, because I am certainly not the right candidate for leading a political movement, nor do I think I'm a great fit to generate that early momentum.
But no matter what, I don't think the group sentiment should be "give me a perfect candidate, or I'm helping the Nazis" That seems like a foundational issue that needs to be corrected, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. And relatively speaking, the "good" choice was simply not being Nazis.
Adapt to the situation, and as part of the progress maybe we can adopt a better voting system that doesn't force you to make one of 2 choices for high level government positions. But don't delude yourself into thinking there was any other option. Our choices were genocide, or more genocide, and voters that didn't want the genocide candidate ironically helped the more genocide candidate. They should regret that.
Stop focusing on what was/could have been. Focus on what is/can be. A house divided refers to self before all.
I honestly don't think division is the intention of most folks like myself, I think it's a venting of frustration and an honest plea for people to reflect on the past so that history doesn't repeat itself immediately.
Maybe some people want an apology, but that sounds silly. Personally I just want to see reflection and a commitment to avoiding the same issue going forward. Cause I'm gonna be blunt, it's impossible to please everyone in a 2 party system, and I guarantee you the Democrats are going to disappoint you next time, but can we agree that they are better than the alternative? And can we embrace the reality of the 2 party system while we strive to improve it?
You want us to reflect on how voting for a secret Nazi is... Better than voting for a flamboyant Nazi? How about you reflect on what you can do to either get Democrats to stop forwarding Nazi candidates with Nazi policies OR elect candidates who aren't Nazis?
And we have reached the root of the issue I was describing. Yes, democrats aren't perfect, rather it's accurate to say they are awful. But you seem to actively be dodging the point that they are better than the alternative whether you like them or not.
As for reflecting on what we can do to stop them, I would say that we could start by not dissuading voters, and instead encourage them to vote every time, especially in primaries, so that a more preferable candidate can be had. In this election, that wouldn't have done jack shit, but maybe it could have replaced Biden in the previous election. And maybe if you want to tackle the core problems with the DNC, we will have to elect candidates campaigning on doing so within lower levels of government, which will require us to encourage voters, not dissuade them.
Getting mad because people point out that your impotent rage isnt a solution, and instead gets in the way of a solution, also isn't a solution. What ideas do you have?
Edit: Also, in case it wasnt clear, calling Kamala a secret Nazi makes no sense, so I ignored you. I'll grant you that democrats absolutely are in bed with corporate interests, and that they absolutely should not have continued to aid a genocide, but that is a far cry from the actual Nazi insanity that is Trump/Musk.
Kamala didn't lose because of Palestine. She lost because DNC centrism has been a political dead end since at least 2012. 2020 was the anomaly; Trump only lost because of Covid.
Centrists are just using the Palestine issue as a scapegoat for their own failures. Kamala/Biden was doomed long before Palestine.
The thing is though that I don't think anyone doesn't already know that. The people who legitimately didn't vote for Harris in the general election won't care because they'll say "I didn't vote for Trump either, so it's not my fault" and no amount of everyone telling them it is or explaining the reality of our terrible first past the post system is going to change that. You're basically preaching to the choir here and it's frankly nothing but a distraction from addressing the real and pressing issue of the white nationalist fascists literally seizing power right now. The thousandth "told ya so" post isn't doing anything more than the last 990 did besides stroking your own ego.
I mean, it's also part of the discourse in social media, too. The person I replied to actually asked for the opinion related to those who share the same sentiment as I do. In this instance, it is kinda on you that you kept reading the thread.
Though I would agree that the overall focus should be on what we do from here. And to that, I'd like to see some form of organized community action, protest, or something like that start to pick up steam so that I could support or participate in.
The issue is that it's practically the only thing being commented in any post related to Palestine and it's drowning out all the useful discussion that needs to be taking place. Pick any post about Palestine and look at the comments and the overwhelming majority of them are some variation on "boy, I bet all those people who refused to vote for Harris are so happy now", which is about as useful a comment as all the idiots that used to rush to post "First" on articles back in the day.
These "told you so" comments are so pervasive it's starting to feel vaguely like astroturfing. A bunch of comments encouraging non-Republican voters to fight amongst themselves and drowning out any possible productive discussion or organization sure sounds like it would be a brilliant move by the fascist supporters. I'm not suggesting everyone making those comments is astroturfing or a troll, but the absolute way that's blanketing all discussion around Palestine sure does make me wonder if some of them are.