this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
9 points (80.0% liked)
[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
3201 readers
2 users here now
We have moved to:
A community for the sharing of links, news, and discussion related to Electric Vehicles.
Rules
- No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, casteism, speciesism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
- Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
- No self-promotion.
- No irrelevant content. All posts must be relevant and related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs.
- No trolling.
- Policy, not politics. Submissions and comments about effective policymaking are allowed and encouraged in the community, however conversations and submissions about parties, politicians, and those devolving into general tribalism will be removed.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't need a scientific study to know that most days I'd need my car for a significantly lower driving distance than the few long-range outliers.
The problem isn't a logistical of "Wow! Turns out I can commute with an EV because I don't drive 400 km to work each day! Thank you Mr. Scientist!" but a financial one. The large majority of people can afford one car, if any, and this one car has to work for everything. Do you think people are happy investing in a 20k or more EV when they still have to rent a car to visit their familiy over holidays?
If it's just for the sake of driving around town daily, EVs need to get significantly cheaper to be interesting for people with normal incomes.
That's why I waited until 2019 to get an EV. If I was still married, I'd have gotten one earlier and used it strictly as a commuter. But being single, I needed at car that could also handle occasional road trips up to 12 hours or so. The Model 3 fit my needs and has been the only car I've driven for almost 5 years now.
Would it make sense to rent a car for those longer journeys? I know I'm not in the wasteland of car dependency that is the US, but I don't own a car because it would just sit around costing money 99% of the time. I rent a car for the 1%.
Nah, renting a car on top of whatever you're already paying for the short range car is expensive. Hundreds of dollars for even a couple of days.
Even if you only need a car for those long trips, that's a huge expense on top of the travel costs (hotels, food on the go, gas, etc).
I've had to rent a car to go up to northern states to visit my or my wife's family a few times, and it's crazy how expensive it is. I drive a little subcompact because I actually like small cars, but you can't pack two adults, a kid, and all their luggage into one little hatchback.
I can kinda see someone that lives with good, cheap public transport in a city saving enough on not owning a car (insurance, licensing, etc) to make it feasible if they aren't renting more than once or twice a year, but even that can blow the balance if it's an extended rental.
The cost of a week in another state via the rental, just for the car was more than the car payment, insurance, and approximate maintenance costs for my car for the month. Mind you, I do have a very cheap to insure car that didn't cost much (13k), so the balance for most people isn't as extreme.
Plus, you can't rent without a credit card reliably, if you want to go out of state. A credit card isn't exactly impossible for everyone, but it's still a limiting factor for enough people that renting anything like that is impossible.
Basically this. My commute is a little over 40 miles. If I got a leaf (which my dad used to have, so I know it well), I could get there and back. Unless I had to make an additional stop on the way home. Or run a significant errant on my lunch break. Then it might get squiffy.
But, okay, maybe I have a spouse I can ask to run errands and stuff for me. Then I just have to worry about when its hot or cold enough I need to run the AC or heater, in which case my range goes down to 60 miles. Good thing that only happens 11 months out of the year.
Don't forget you'll lose like 1.5% of your overall battery life like every year.
Then, don't worry. If the battery needs replaced it will only cost you....$8,000.
My battery got replaced at 5 years old due to a warranty issue
Before that I had lost a grand total of 1.6% battery capacity, and I charged almost exclusively through fast chargers
Battery degradation is massively overexaggerated
You also literally just said you had to replace your battery, the capacity readouts the vehicles give are often not correct. It's literally impossible for a car or phone or anything that uses rechargeable batteries to know true capacity loss without a full discharge (ie car stop/phone shuts off ect.) and is charged to 100% capacity. Unless you do that capacity lost can only be an estimate based on expectation of degradation and total usage with an added curve on boltage levels.
You had it replaced at 5 years under warranty, so it had less than 100k miles on it and you were 3 years away from having to pay out of pocket even if you managed to go the 8 year warranty without hitting the 100k mark. Your car had a $12,000 failure after just 5 years (or dangerous issue that had to warrant a new battery) but you're defending the thing because it got replaced under a federally required warranty. Good job, my guy.
If we built good regional/national/international transit, a lot of the longer range issues could be fixed. Some people may still need more range/more storage but high speed rail could get people farther more effeciently than their EVs and be suitable for many trips.
US transit that could efficiently take you to every city you may need to go to in the US would be absolutely insane to try and pull off. It's great for countries the size of one or two of our states, but try to imagine what a transit network to get you from Clarksville Iowa to Clinton Missouri would actually look like. It would need to be insane.
China has done it pretty well, and there's no reason we can't too. It's just our car and oil lobbies would rather people spend stupid amounts of money on driving everywhere than literally any other form of transit.
I live in SF and bus/train everywhere and it's fantastic. Never have to look for parking, I get natural exercise in my daily routine through walking, and I'll spend at absolute max $1100 a year for unlimited transit rides which might cover the insurance cost on an okay car. There's no excuse for the shitty transit system we have in the US.
Oh wow. I like totally forgot that everyone in the country lives in an expensive and large, dense city that they almost never have to travel outside of. Silly me.
That only works well for people in about 40 cities in the country. The average home cost in San Fran right now is $1,200,000. The average home cost in a place like Blue Springs Missouri is about $300,000. So tell you what, give me $900,000 to make up the difference and I'll move to San Fran and stop bitching about public transport not being viable on a national level, because most of the country can't afford to live in that type of city. Apparently unless you're homeless. You have way more people living on the streets.
I never said that, but okay.
My point is we have no excuse for not at least connecting our major metros together by transit, and having good transit within them. I grew up in the country, I lived 6 miles from the nearest town. I'm well aware it doesn't work everywhere, but the majority of people, in fact, DO live in cities, and yet we still insist on cars being the main mode of transportation for almost every single metro except like 3 of them. It's terribly inefficient and horrible for the environment.
Yeah, the majority live in cities. But not the like 40 cities that I stated. Most people don't live in those. You're skewing what I said. There are over 300 cities in the US, and most of them aren't like NYC, LA, Atlanta, and San Fran etc.
But it’s not that insane: the key is to use each transportation for where it’s good, rather than make the same mistake we did with cars and apply it everywhere.
Currently one of the reasons we’re stuck is one side expecting to always need a car and the other wanting to take their cars. But there’s a medium where we could all be happy, where most trips are transit and no one is left without options
How different is that really from a road network?
If we had better infrastructure, there would be fewer commutes using cars.