Lefty Memes
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
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I don't like how they've taken a turn toward liberalizing and "opening up" their healthcare industry so vultures like the guy who got today can get even wealthier off of everyone else.
Maybe there's some logic to it, but I think it sucks.
And would you agree that by enabling people to become billionaires makes them quite the opposite of communist? Almost like everyone at the top in every country is the actual problem?
No, the CPC's usage of a Socialist Market Ecnomy is in line with the Marxist stance that markets and public ownership are more effective in different sectors with respect to level of development. Per Engels:
The Proletariat wrests Captial by the degree to which it has developed, which is necessarily different in different sectors and industries, and not merely by decree. The goal is full public ownership and central planning, but until that becomes practical across the entire economy, focusing on the principle sectors, ie the steel industry, infrastructure, and so forth that the Private Sector relies on allows humans to have dominance over Capital, and not the reverse. Half of the PRC's economy is in the Public Sector, and nearly a tenth in the cooperative sector.
You don't have to blindly support the PRC, but it absolutely is Socialist.
Typical Wumao response.
You can’t have billionaires and be communism. That’s not fair to the people, which is the point.
In what manner is Engels "wumao?" Marxism is not about "fairness," or "justice," but liberation of the working class. It's about rapidly improving the lives of the Proletariat. The notion that private property can be abolished with one stroke is anti-Marxist, and that means the idea that the bourgeoisie and thus billionaires can be abolished at one stroke is also anti-Marxist. The CPC is increasing control over the Private Sector and gradually wresting Capital from the Bourgeoisie, precisely as Marx and Engels envisioned a Socialist State would.
You can't just uncritically label everything you disagree with as "wumao."
You can’t liberate the fucking working class when you’re allowing someone to make the billions of dollars that should be going to the working class. China is a fucking hypocritical country and you are programmed by them. Goooodbye Wumao
Can you explain how an American managed to be "programmed" by the PRC despite not speaking any mandarin? Is the PRC that powerful? Again, I point you to Marx:
Markets centralize and lay the foundations for public ownership and central planning. You can't wave a wand and command these internal mechanisms for planning to spring out of thin air.
You can quote whatever you want. You cannot have a communist country where people are not equal.
Goodbye Wumao
Marxism is not about "equality," and in fact recognizes the very real differences in people as individuals. Marx railed against "equalitarians" his entire life. Is Marx "wumao" too?
Critique of the Gotha Programme
No, just you. lol. You’re making a fool of yourself. It at least you’re getting your money.
How am I "making a fool of myself?" Am I misrepresenting Marx? Misanalyzing the PRC? Are you capable of answering anything without repeating unproductive ad hominems?
I am accomplishing my goal.
If your goal is to help me prove my points by offering no actual opposition, then you're doing a splendid job.
You aren’t proving anything. You’re copying and pasting propaganda, which isn’t an original thought.
Marx and Engels are propaganda?
Anything can be used as propaganda in the right setting.
Then explain where the differences are between the intention of Marx and Engels and how the PRC operates today. I have been asking you to give any reasoning, but you've failed to. If you believe what I say to be "propaganda," then you're only aiding me by refusing to counter it yet continuing to engage via ad hominem.
I’ve accomplished my goal. Goodbye.
Thanks for your help in providing a sounding board to bounce points off of, comrade 🫡
Glad I could help you make money. Spend it wisely, and one day you might be a billionaire too.
Never will be, considering I am not being paid for any of this, but hopefully this exchange will help convince onlookers of the validity of Marxism.
I will say, they have at least as st made a show of keeping a leash on them so far, executing ones for corruption/embezzlement is good, I think these types of things are a continuum, if they allow the capitalists they're attempting to instrumentalize to actually solidify political power within the country I would agree that anything they reach could never be called communism. That's why I think it's sort of a Faustian bargain.
This last decade has made me acutely aware of this point, regime change begins at home.
Those executions are just for show. And change will only happen at the end of a blade… but pointing up, not down to the people. That includes the people of the west.
How can execution of billionaires be "for show?" Are they supporting billionaires, or killing the ones that step out of line? Which is it?
Typical Wumao.
You can’t have billionaires and be communist. End of discussion.
Is Engels "wumao?"
Do you think the PRC can summon more developed productive forces with the swish and flick of a wand? The entire purpose of Scientific Socialism is analyzing that markets and public ownership are both tools, and each is more or less effective at different points in development. Half the PRC's economy is in the public sector, governing industries like steel, infrastructure, energy, etc, which all place reliance on the public sector from the private sector, which is not as developed and generally governs more complex industries at lower levels of development.
I gave you my last message on the other comment. And you definitely know what that word means.
I know what wumao is, I am asking why you believe Engels is wumao.
I’m talking about YOU
And I am quoting Engels, and asking why you believe him to be wrong and therefore "wumao," as he is describing centuries ago the very process the PRC is going through right now.
You don’t know what the word means. lol
I do, your insistence that I don't know that wumao refers to people paid by the PRC to spread propaganda makes it seem as cover for your lack of ability to answer my questions.
You’re not asking questions.
lol. Wumao, when they gave you that document of quotes to use, you weren’t supposed to copy the question.
You must be new.
The "document of quotes" is just Marx and Engels, lmao. I asked you directly that question, your avoidance of it speaks to your inability to answer it, so you pull out the ol' reliable method of refusing to engage and just resort to baseless insults of no effect.
You’re not doing anything but copy and paste.
Less than half of this comment is copied and pasted, the rest was original and written for you in particular as a response to your comment. The copied and pasted bit is from Engels, supporting my claim that the PRC is acting as Marxists, and therefore Communists.