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Boy, 15, who fatally stabbed teenager he did not know in Birmingham is jailed for life (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

132 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

A 15-year-old boy was sentenced to life in prison for fatally stabbing a stranger, Muhammad Hassam Ali, after a brief conversation in Birmingham city center. The second boy, who stood by, was sentenced to five years in secure accommodation. Ali’s family expressed their grief, describing him as a budding engineer whose life was tragically cut short.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I readily concede the fact that a 15-year-old's frontal cortex is not completely developed.

I reject the idea that only a fully mature frontal cortex is capable of restraining someone from murdering a teenager. Even a radically undeveloped frontal cortex is more than capable.

This kid went out that day with a deadly weapon, seeking out the person or people who had previously attacked his friend, intending to commit violence against that individual. He found this teenager. Based on this teen's race, he believed this teen was complicit in his friend's attack. He spent 4 minutes arguing with this teenager, then stabbed him.

This wasn't a crime of passion. This was premeditated. He left his home that day intending to use his knife on someone. He knew his actions and intent were criminal and immoral, and he chose to act anyway.

Everything else in your last comment is an ad hominem, and doesn't need a response.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I reject the idea that only a fully mature frontal cortex is capable of restraining someone from murdering a teenager. Even a radically undeveloped frontal cortex is more than capable.

And I suppose you're a neuroscientist, behavioural psychologist, and generally smarter than literally every single person working in juvenile justice.

Everything else in your last comment is an ad hominem, and doesn’t need a response.

No. I was describing your character as I inferred from your behaviour, I was not making arguments based on it. Learn your fallacies: "You are a numpty, therefore, you are wrong" is ad hominem. "You are wrong, therefore, you are a numpty" is not.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

And I suppose you're a neuroscientist, behavioural psychologist, and generally smarter than literally every single person working in juvenile justice.

This is another ad hominem, disguised as an appeal to authority.

No. I was describing your character

Correct. You were describing me, rather than discussing the issue. That is, by definition. An "argumentum ad hominem". It is an "argument against the man" rather than an argument regarding the issue under discussion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

You were describing me, rather than discussing the issue.

I have been discussing the issue. You failed, repeatedly, to acknowledge developmental psychology 101, that is, you didn't discuss the issue. Thus, to work towards the possibility of a discussion about the original issue, I expanded the discussion to your person.

Because unless and until you realise that you're doing your darndest to not look at relevant factors there can be no progress. And with this I'm actually out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

You failed, repeatedly, to acknowledge developmental psychology 101

I have acknowledged developmental psychology, repeatedly. I have rejected your characterization of not-fully-mature frontal cortex as exculpatory.

You would have a point if we were talking about an average 4-year-old, or a developmentally delayed 12-year old. Not an uninstitutionalized 15-year-old. Even a rather slow 15-year-old has sufficient mental capacity to comprehend extreme violence, and all the evidence says this kid wasn't extraordinarily stunted.

Immaturity is reasonable when discussing crimes involving substantially higher degrees of mental abstraction. Not intentional murder.

The approach you should be taking isn't that he is immature. The approach you should be taking is one that would apply to even a mature adult.