this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024

848 points (99.6% liked)

News

23296 readers

3354 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

848

An excess of billionaires is destabilising politics – just as academics predicted (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

46 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The concept of “elite overproduction” was developed by social scientist Peter Turchin around the turn of this century to describe something specific: too many rich people for not enough rich-person jobs. It’s a byproduct of inequality: a ton of poor people, sure, but also a superfluity of the wealthy, without enough positions to house them in the influence and status to which they think themselves entitled. In a modern context, that would mean senior positions in the government and civil service, along with the top tier of finance and law, but Turchin tested the hypothesis from ancient Rome to 19th-century Britain. The names and nature of the contested jobs and titles changed; the pattern remained. Turchin predicted in 2010 that by the 2020s it would be destabilising US politics.

Turchin didn’t specify exactly how much wealth puts you in a situation with an overproduced elite, but he didn’t mean debt-laden students; he didn’t mean MPs; he meant, for brevity, billionaires or the top 1%. When a lot of your media are billionaire-owned, those media sources become endlessly inventive in taking the heat off billionaires, nipping criticism in the bud by pilfering its vocabulary and throwing it back at everyone.

Elon Musk could never have got himself elected into office in the US. But as the cost-cutting tsar, a made-up role Trump has promised him, he would exert extraordinary power to cause pain, with the only choice left to citizens being whether or not to hug it. Another billionaire donor, John Paulson, has been floated for the treasury secretary job, and Trump has a track record of rewarding big-ticket donors with a seat at the table – the billionaire Stephen Schwarzman boasted in print about his role in the new North America Free Trade Agreement negotiations in 2018, and as part of Trump’s “strategic and policy forum” during the 2017 administration.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I truly believe the world would be a much better place if there was a clear cutoff for wealth. But of course, there would still be weasles out there circumventing such measures. Greed is such an incredibly harmful thing.

Not a single redeeming thing about billionaires. Not a single one. Their "philanthropy" would be entirely unneeded, if they simply paid their fair share back to society, without which they wouldn't have what they have in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Philanthropy is just bullshit at their level. My grandma giving to unicef is not the same as what they do. They want you to believe this. But they have the power to shape policies and society in their favour. It's always about money and power. Whether it's for tax, or anything else they can shape through philanthropy.

If you play android netrunner, there is an asset card used by Corporation called NGO front, and when I hear about billionaires philanthropy, I think of the small quote on this card "Who new non-profit could be so profitable."

[+] [email protected] -6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Their "philanthropy" would be entirely unneeded, if they simply paid their fair share back to society

The entirety of the net worth of all billionaires in the US (~$5 trillion), assuming a magic wand could magically convert the figure 1:1 into cash (big assumption being made in favor of your argument), would foot the bill of total US government's welfare spending ($1.03 trillion: https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/CRS%20Report%20-%20Welfare%20Spending%20The%20Largest%20Item%20In%20The%20Federal%20Budget.pdf ) for five measly years.

So even if your definition of "fair share" for them is literally 100% of what they have, the quoted statement is extremely obviously untrue.

Not to mention that's also assuming that that $1 trillion the government spends is enough to make philanthropy redundant, which it demonstrably isn't.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

So instead of using our magic want to just take it all and convert it to cash we convert 1/4th to cash and keep the rest invested how it was with just the ownership changing to a public trust, that could fund welfare indefinitely based off just the interest and dividend payments that would otherwise just go to the former billionaire doubling their net worth every 5 years.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And what do you do about the fact that this magic wand doesn't actually exist, and that net worth is just a price tag, not an amount of actual money? The supermarket doesn't accept stocks as payment.

Also, the vast majority of billionaires' investments don't even pay dividends at all, they're re-invested back into the business for further growth.

I wish people who knew nothing about economics didn't pretend to have any idea what they're talking about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I wish people who claim to know about economics understood what a hypothetical is.

So I'm talking about "if we had a magic wand" and here you go changing the rules and taking it away.

I'm sure there are places for economics professors such as yourself to discuss these things seriously, but this ain't it.

Now taking back my magic wand, I'm also casting a spell to take advantage of the fact that stocks can be used as collateral for loans, and since my first cast was to move the funds to a public trust I'm now directing said trust to take out loans and give everyone housing, they'll be paid back over time by a combination of gradually selling off the remaining stocks at a pace that doesnt shock the market...

But I swear if you take my wand away again when I get it back I'm just going to crash the stock market out of spite.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

if we're imagining a better place why not go further? private ownership over collective production is the only way such gross amounts of wealth are possible.

A 100% tax bracket is fine and all, but why don't we reimagine the economy so that individuals aren't controlling so much of it? We built the infrastructure, we built the factories, we invented the machines and algorithms.