this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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Every two years, 99% of voters here in the US choose to put their stamp of approval on capitalism. Then they inexplicably clutch their pearls when capitalists do capitalist things, as if it's somehow shocking.
Looks like public pressure brought a positive outcome in this case, so that's something, but this is the stuff you should consider when voting for the two ruling parties.
Voting doesn't equal approval.
Yes, it does. We may not like to consider that, but it's the truth.
Disagreeing with politics is as old as humans, one can live in a situation one doesn't philosophically agree with. Voting does hold aspiration.
That it does.
We still have to look at historical patterns and acknowledge that what a person claims to vote for is antithetical to what their party of choice is actually going to do.
Do you have a source for that?
What do you suggest people do then? Protest the vote and take to the streets? Not asking to be a dick, just genuinely curious.
Vote third party and be public about it.
Protests are a waste, so taking to the streets doesn't matter much unless you can gather enough people to create a legitimate violent threat.
Work inside all of the political institutions to bring about constitutional change. Abolish electoral college etc.
While agree with the sentiment, electorialism will never end capitalism because of the power imbalance where capitalists will spend all their money if they need to for heavy propaganda campaigns in favour of capitalism.
Your energy is better spent on small scale organising your workplace, to make sure that you and your coworkers can actually use the only leverage you have through strikes.
Absolutely right. The only power we have now is local.
The amusing thing about the people who complain that capitalists are the root of all problems, they don't make an effort to correct it.
Take the situation of this story. If your ideals are pure and would have the popular support of a critical mass of people, there is absolutely not one thing preventing the establishment of a company, chartered as a public good corporation, and ran as a non-profit entity to provide these kind of material goods for people at cost, or if someone is willing to subsidise the production even less so if you like. You could even get the seed money from a crowd sourced campaign, or so called 'angel investors' no strings attached, no ownership stakes to distribute.
An interesting take, but nevertheless, an incorrect one. The individual vote has no power to make significant change at the Federal level unless they're a billionaire or willing to commit an act of terrorism. (Both of which don't apply to either of us, I imagine.)
A vote is a vote, but that's not the solution I spoke of. Rather than trying to push people to disengage or vote 3rd party, neither of which will make any meaningful difference to the situation (even in the million to one chance some 3rd party did get elected, they're a politician and will do politician things), why not take the situation into your own hands and create the company run by someone who won't behave like a capitalist?
Create the next Google, but you can be the one who really follows the "don't be evil" mantra and in the process usurp the throne from the capitalists who have gone wrong. Once that is done you have the ability to simply hand the reigns over to anyone working there and walk away knowing the problem of that particular market is now solved.
I've been voting for a while and never have I seen a candidate on the ballot who was against capitalism.
You are that guy in the comic about a modern person blaming serfs for the persistence of feudalism.
Thank you for your response.
Hey, look at that. It's the inevitable consequence of the game theory of first past the post voting. Voting system reform is my #1 issue, and if you actually care about the fact that "99% of voters" are locked into voting for someone they dislike to avert disaster every 4 years, it should be yours as well.
There is no meaningful future for third parties until and unless this occurs. IRV is a good first step, but Score voting is better. Multimember districts are also important. Getting rid of the electoral college is a no-brainer.
Thank you for your perspective.
Respectfully, I don't think it is. You've seen the same history I have and, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, you know how your Democratic vote reinforces that which you say you want to change.
If only there were other things that a person could do outside of voting once every four years to participate in the political process.
Agreed.
If only.
Requires a constitutional amendment, which, in case it isn't obvious, will not happen, as it will require the yea votes of states that currently wield outsized power under the current system.
Push for it in your state, first. We're still in the first few cycles using RCV in Maine (I like STAR better) where folks are learning to love it, but there's no time like now to get that ball rolling. More people need to experience it to shift the national conversation of "whether we should" to "which should we use"
US voters are never given the chance to vote for non-capitalist candidates. But this year we actually have a socialist in the running which is why I am voting for Claudia de la Cruz this year.
I respect your right to vote as you choose.
In a two-party system, you're throwing away your vote that could get Harris instead of Trump elected for not even a blip on the radar. This is at best pointless grandstanding.
Edit: Decided to read a little into her. She's nothing but a spoiler candidate, meant to syphon voters away from Harris, just like Stein. Cherry on top: Apologia for China and North Korea and funding from China, which alone should motivate any decent human being to avoid her like the plague: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_De_la_Cruz_2024_presidential_campaign#Criticism
How exactly are you not throwing your vote away voting Harris or Trump, in full knowledge that neither is going to do anything meaningful to help the poor and working class?
Are you seriously trying to promote a false equivalency narrative?
I'm asking a legitimate question here.
We can look back at the last 40 years, but the last 20 in particular, when Democrats were handed a mandate not once but twice.
And they've used that power to make us poorer, not wealthier.
So how exactly are you not throwing your vote away voting Harris or Trump, given that we can look at recent history and infer exactly what they're going to do once elected?
I could vote Harris, but my eighty year-old parents are still going to have to drive for DoorDash, in the car I lent them, and if they can't Harris or Trump will gladly allow their monied friends to take everything away from them. You and I both know it, so all of the discussion about 'throwing your vote away' just rings very hollow to me. My vote is already worthless, at least as concerns the Federal Government.
OK, I'll bite.
Trump will be worse for marginalized people, trans folks in particular. Harris has a history of supporting LGBTQIA+ rights.
Trump will be worse for Palestine (and has said as much). Harris has at least entertained a cease fire.
Trump, despite the lies that he utters, will make every move to implement Project 2025, which will destroy any semblance of democracy. Harris won't do that.
I am so sick of the bosthsideism bullshit. Just because they are both bad, does not mean one isn't dramatically worse. This election is going to be close, and as shitty as it is, the US is a 2 party system. Third parties do not have a chance with the current electoral system.
If you want that to change, you have start local and work up the chain. Not voting or voting third party is pointless until there is a change in system, and that starts locally.
You're partly right.
The only power we have now is local, unless you're a billionaire or willing to commit a terrorist act, both of which do not apply to me. You can always do good with your own two hands, but we can look at the last two decades and conclude correctly and definitively that voting for either major party is throwing your vote away, at least if you're a wage earner.
The thing is, fascism's already here for most. Abortion is criminalized in part of the country and will soon be criminalized in most of it, and it happened with Democrats in power. A vast majority of Americans have to work 2-3 jobs to survive now, and it happened while Democrats were in charge. If you have a major injury or illness, you will be bankrupted, and that remains true no matter who we elect. If you're a person of color, a police officer can kill you at will and there won't be any meaningful blowback to the police system, and not only did it happen under Democrats, Joe Biden mocked the defund movement in a SOTU speech.
It seems most people want to give credit to Democrats for what they say. I'm giving them credit for what they actually do.
If you don't think those things will get substantially worse, and substantially faster under Trump, the you have played yourself
Does it not bother you that they all happened and got worse under Democrats?
Of course it does. Where did I ever imply it didn't? But just because the dems suck, doesn't mean the GOP isn't far worse, especially the Trump flavor. There are states I can be legally sterilized because I have an X as my gender marker on my ID. That's the kind of shit the trumpers want to do federally. At least with Harris there is a chance for the people to pressure her to do the right thing. With trump that is impossible