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My fourteen year has a few guns. 20 gauge single shot break barrel, .410 single shot break barrel, bolt action .22 rifle and a single action .22 revolver. (Single action revolvers are the really old school kind where you have to cock the hammer each time it shoots. It's a damn big revolver as well, good luck concealing it.) They are used for varmint control and hunting. The revolver is great for rat shot and he has taken quite a few gophers with it. He understands what guns do and how they cause death.
We hunt, fish, camp, kayak, live on a tiny farm.
I don't own an AR, don't have use for one at this time. Giving a kid an AR and uncontrolled access to it in an urban environment is nucking futz. My son has access to his guns because I trust him to safely and respectfully use them. He also has been trained in their proper use since he was 7 or 8.
And what would you do if the police showed up to politely talk about your kid making school shooting threats online?
The relevant bit from the article, that they buried-
That's kind of the point I'm trying to make. There's a healthy way for kids to have and use guns, but it certainly isn't this.
America has so warped its perception of guns that they're now some sort of male enhancement device and tied into people's identity.
This is probably a somewhat idealized view of the past, but I would think most Americans of the past viewed guns primarily as tool instead of as a supplementary cock.
Those people have no business owning a gun. I fully support some sort of gun control. Even more than that, public healthcare including mental healthcare would go a long way towards reducing shootings like this.
If the cops showed up to talk to me about my kid making threats, I would very politely listen to them without saying much or incriminating any of us. I'd check in with his teachers, get their side. Then I'd almost certainly lock up every gun, most of the knives and get him to a shrink. If we could afford it, we'd be looking into inpatient therapy.
A big chunk of this country, for all intents and purposes, has gone permanently insane. They're a danger to themselves and others. Doesn't seem to be any fixing it anytime soon.
It pisses me off. I often feel like suburban wannabe tuff guys are trying to ape masculinity and they end up cosplaying as me. Do they feel like real big boys now?
Americans in the past viewed guns as a tool? How ignorant are you? You mean the World Wars or the civil wars or the genocide of the natives? Which one we talkin about?
That's a dick way to ask that question. How ignorant are you? Man killing guns were absolutely and still are viewed as tools, especially by the military.
I've got plenty of problems with the way I was raised, especially religion and politics. However, my parents and grandparents viewed guns as tools. Most people around me as a kid viewed them as tools. Concealed carry was almost unheard of and, for the most part, paranoid gun nuts were viewed with some distaste.
I was raised in rural Alabama, fwiw. I think the big change in attitude started happening with Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Columbine. There has absolutely been a cultural shift around guns and their fetishization.
As far as genocide and all the horrible things that have been done, duh. The focus was on the killing, not the tools used to do the job. You don't see people fetishizing Zyclon b, small pox, or famine to this degree.
You're just looking for something to get offended about.
But whatever, guess I'm just ignorant.
I know exactly what you mean and I figured that would be your answer. I just wanted it out there so people could see just how far out of normal this gun culture is. I carried a lot of guns in the military and while they were fun, having to use them outside of training was very not fun. I've also seen first-hand why having a gun in the house increases risk of death, specifically for veterans like me. I hate this idea of guns as a fashion accessory or as you say, extra manliness cosplay. If we're going to have them they need to be highly regulated tools. Not freely available toys.
There's that whole healthcare, including mental healthcare, thing again. "Here kid, take this gun and go kill people for 'Murica, like protect our freedoms or whatever. What, you want healthcare now that you're back home and fucked up? Fuck you, go to the VA and take a number." That shit is fucked and I've hung with several fucked up veterans. Poor bastards didn't sign up for that shit.
I hope I never ever have to shoot at a person.
Gun culture shouldn't even be a thing like it is. At most, it should be like car culture or something.
I enjoy my guns but I also love a lot of my other tools. I've got a 1944 or earlier Atlas lathe I restored, a '98 Ford Ranger that I keep running tight. I'm currently working on a '69 Wheel Horse mini tractor. I've got a caliper from 1856. I've got an assortment of knives that I use for various things, most of them in carbon steel.
Gun culture should be a subset of tool culture, not this insane identity political religion shit that we have now.
I can only agree so hard.
I support these use cases, but I still disagree with open access. He shows his untrained friend, and now you're liable for their death. He becomes clinically depressed and now he has a method for suicide. It's just not worth the risk.
Why? He's not as big into hunting like me, but will kill varmints when necessary and has done so when I'm not home so his mother didn't have to.
I used to go hunting alone when I was his age.
He's mentally stable, well adjusted. He views guns as tools, as do I. He also has a rolling toolbox with $1k of tools in it. He put in so much work this summer that a full toolbox was part of how I rewarded him.
Now, if there was depression, threats, suicidal tendencies, etc.: totally different situation.
Guns aren't a masculinity fetish for us, they're just another tool. Guns and other power tools are fun to play with as long as you understand the safety and proper use of them.
I'm in the market for a chainsaw, I'll be getting chaps to go with it. He'll also be trained in the use of the chainsaw and have open access to it.
I've also been teaching him how to drive and he can't get a permit until he's 16.
He uses dangerous tools regularly. More and more, he does so without my direct supervision.
A chainsaw's primary use is to cut through wood. A car's primary use is to travel from point A to B. A gun's primary use is to kill. Again, I very much support the training and use cases, but that's why I'm against open access without an issued permit.
He also has open access to rat poison.
I'm guessing you're not from the US? Permits aren't issued for such a thing. As far as I know, permits are only issued for concealed carry outside of one's property. There are hunting licenses, but that that doesn't really factor in to gun access.
Given the smaller calibers and slow fire rates of the guns he has access to, the purpose of his guns is not man killing. They're for varmints and such.
I keep going back to the tool definition of guns. In the US, most people seem to no longer view guns as tools. They are scary or empowering magic objects that cause great fear or act as a male enhancement device depending on political views.
IDK, this society is sick this shooting is a symptom. People's knee jerk reactions to guns on both sides is a symptom. Kids get caught in the middle in the meat grinder.