this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)

Ukraine

8247 readers
33 users here now

News and discussion related to Ukraine

*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.

*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.

*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title

*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW


Donate to support Ukraine's Defense

Donate to support Humanitarian Aid


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

MOSCOW, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Russia's ambassador to Washington said on Friday that he did not believe Ukraine would have attacked the Nord Stream gas pipelines without the tacit approval of the United States, and that Russia would identify and punish those behind the attack.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Our tax money was used to finance Russias war of agression

Because that's not true. That's the propaganda narrative that is repeated again and again.

  1. Nordstream 2 was planned and paid by Gazprom (owned by Russia), Uniper (then part of Fortum - owned by Finland), Shell (UK), OMV (Austria), Engie (partly owned by France), Wintershall (Germany).

German tax payers did pay exactly zero (I don't know enough about finances in Finland or France to know if they (indirectly) paid taxes for it. Those two -and Gazprom -where the only countries involved with the rest being private companies). German tax payers also didn't care for European companies wanting to inrease their imports from Russia as Germany's own gas consumption was stagnating for years.

The only actual interest for the project in Germany was pushed by the local government in the state were the pipeline ended... because of additional jobs in construction and operation created.

  1. Germany financing Russia is also a lie people keep repeating. Actual trade balances are publically available. Germany pulled ~50 billion $ out of Russia over the years, while in the same time the US, UK, Poland and even Ukraine (although they are the ones not to blame here, as their options were limited) actually financed Russia via a massive trade deficit.

PS: Do you want to know who was Ukraine's biggest financial supporter since 2014? Also a detail that probably won't match your chosen reality.

and without 3 small nudges nothing tangible was going to change

What should they have changed?

Not opening NS2 in the first place? That is exactly what happenend. Before Russia started their invasion.

Or should they have reduced the deliveries through NS1 from nothing to even less... oh, wait...

Oh, I know. Should they have called Russia's bluff about technical problems and then start legal procedings so German companies would not go bankrupt from payments for gas that they wouldn't receive to finally close the Nordstream chapter? Again, that's exactly what happenend.

And more than a month later an unused (NS1) and unoperational (NS2) pipeline exploded.

Please point out the change those "small nudges" (interesting choice of words for an act of war against a countries infrastructure btw...) brought.

Why wouldn’t the average Germans response be something like

Why do Germans react the way they do? Because we are sick of the lies and how screwing up then pointing fingers at Germany is Europe's tried and true strategy number 1.

Germany's dependence on Russian gas was slightly below EU average (no wonder when they were Europe's 2nd biuggest gas exporter with no production because everyone imported Russian gas via pipelines ending in Germany)... Yet lying and phantasizing about Germany being dependent was easier than to acknowledge their mistake. And to add insult to injury some countries even screamed loudly at Germany for still importing Russian gas while getting exactly that gas for themselves, usually without it ever reaching Germany but only theoretically being bought from Germany on paper (looking at Poland in particular).

As already mentioned above Germany was one of the few European countries with a trade surplus not financing Russia. Yet telling the fairy tale of how they alone paid for Putins war is easier the telling a truth your voters wouldn't like. Blaming someone else is much better when you want to keep your governing job.

Oh and let's not forget oil. Let's talk about the fact that every single country along that pipeline massivel increased their imports from Russia all through 2022 and the first half of 2023... everyone but Germany that is, while everyone screamed about Germany financing Russia via oil imports.

It's also not limited to Russia in any way: Half of Europe has sold the majority (or all) of their harbors to China. But when Germany reacted by selling a minority share of one single terminal to compete with the massive disadvantage of chinese ships stopping anywhere else then shipping to Germany via land routes there was a massive international outcry why the evil Germans would try to sell out to China. Do you want to guess who worked on correcting that problem at home? Spoiler: Nobody, because the usual "but Germany"-diversion worked.

If you want more diverse reactions from Germans: Get a new scapegoat for once. Until that happens you will only see two reactions: ignoring the daily "Germany bad"-narrative or telling you very clearly what kind of bullshit this is. And judging by the amount of downvotes, insults and accusations of being a Russian troll I get here, the latter group is so small nowadays that people aren't used anymore to get their propaganda narratives challenged.

Either that or people are really not able to argue anymore, operating mostly on feelings of righteous zeal and attacking everything challenging their dogma. But I'm (for now) still too much of an optimist to believe that version...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

But when Germany reacted by selling a minority share of one single terminal

Not even the terminal, but of terminal operations: The Chinese said "if we're going to be frequent customers we want to have a say in scheduling etc" and that's perfectly fair. It's also a common.

Any actual physical infrastructure is completely off limits to foreign investment, and "foreign", here, from the point of view of Hamburg, means "anyone who is not the city itself".

Also did you know that Hapag-Lloyd switched alliances and is going to chum up with Maersk, now. The Hanse and the Danes working together, who would've thought. At this rate next thing that's going to happen is buying up the Netherlands, much of Bremen's harbour is already vassalised.