this post was submitted on 11 Feb 2024
1421 points (95.3% liked)
linuxmemes
21222 readers
41 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudo in Windows.
- No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I am OOL, why so much discord hate lately? I have never used it…
I don’t think people hate discord as a host for some communities, but there definitely is a growing rejection of it among FOSS contributors.
It sucks as a place to store knowledge. The search sucks, it’s not indexable by search engines, and requires an account to use. As another commenter on this post said, it combines the worst parts of IRC and webforums.
There are better ways to organise a FOSS project, and people are unhappy that some projects still choose discord.
Discord is a real-time communication system that also has a built-in history feature. This type of communication promotes conversational interactions, which are really hard to search for complete ideas about problems and their solutions, and those solutions are not indexed by internet search engines, which makes it extremely difficult for people to discover useful information on the platform even with the available history.
The asynchronous nature of web based forums promotes communication in more complete ideas (though this is clearly not always how communication happens) and they are indexable by search engines.
Just look at how people discover solutions in Reddit posts so frequently when searching Google, but nobody finds solutions in chat logs, even IRC which has been around for decades and is often archived in a search indexable site where chat logs are posted.
Edit: I swear that wasn't written even a bit by AI.
No one wants their private/semi-private chats to be indexable or searchable. The whole POINT is to not have what you say broadcast to all and sundry.
I hear what you're saying, but that is exactly why Discord is shit for official communities like in the meme. There's no reason why an open source project should rely on Discord for troubleshooting and feature requests and enthusiasm. Discord was meant for things like video games and friend chats, not instances where data discovery is paramount to growing the community.
There is a reason thar Discord communities trend toward toxic, and it is the insular weirdness that the platform enables and reinforces. Forums make much more sense for projects. Discord ends up with a bunch of no lifers ruining the communities. Been through it far too often with things like genre appreciation groups to open source projects. Reminds me of being a kid and encountering the, frankly, losers chasing people out of IRC.
For open-source projects and stuff that needs to be public, I can feel you.
What these chucklefucks are asking for is to make ALL Discord content indexable and searchable, even extremely private intimate things, and that's absolutely unacceptable.
Assuming I'm one of the chucklefucks you're talking about, that's not what we're saying. The meme and my comments are about software that somebody found. If somebody found it, it's already public. Why should such a software community hold its discussions in private?
I'm very pro-privacy. The topic here is not private software, it's public software.
Useful looking software that somebody stumbles across and wants to learn more about is what we're talking about.
It's your proposed solution that's the problem. The answer isn't to make Discord public, it's to convince people to move off of it, and quite honestly, if you want people to leave Discord so badly, you'd be better off setting up separate public forums for the open source projects you are interested in on your own and convincing/bribing respected members of the Discord to post there, or copy/paste technical info there.
I feel the same way about Lemmy so I sympathize with you, honestly.
You're absolutely right. Aside from me not caring at all what happens to discord, my explanation points out that even having IRC chat logs public doesn't surface solutions in search engines, because chat isn't good for that.
It sounds like you really misunderstood what I was saying. Public software that values community as a long lasting place for users to find solutions should not be promoting chat for those end-user facing discussions, they should be promoting forums.
Plus the original meme isn't saying anything related to making discord publicly searchable, it's saying "fuck discord, I'd rather not use that software than use discord."
This whole comment/complaint is just the pros and cons of different types of communication. None of this is discord specific, it's just complaints that real time chat isn't indexed by search engines and isn't organized into clear topics.
Sure, some IRC chats were logged/posted, but that still has all the same searchability problems, and that process can still be used within discord search. It's just not useful because real time chat doesn't have any sort of topic organization.
This whole thing is like complaining that signal is worse than email because it's not as organized. It's not worse, it's just a different medium with different goals and purpose. And you're not giving any specifics as to why signal/discord is bad, just that you don't like direct messaging/chat rooms.
You don’t really address why having a “conversational” option is bad. I understand the advantages of searchable history but that’s not necessarily the right option for every community. Diversity is good.
It's not bad to have the conversational option, but at a certain point in a project's life cycle it probably shouldn't be the only option.
A complex project like a government would have a hard time throwing out all their knowledge infrastructure and relying purely on Discord.
Sure, but every project doesn’t have to provide every option.
Look at Reddit’s terrible conversational “solution”.
Discord is the option.
That's the beauty of it. Tomorrow, it will be.
(When an AI copy/pastes your answer to someone asking about choosing the correct iphone power brick, or something.)
Maybe that's one thing people like about discord: AI can't index their chat logs... unless discord starts selling that data.
"Starts" lol. They are way ahead of you, my friend.
I recommend reading Discord's Terms of Use and Privacy Policy some time. It is... more eyebrow-raising than usual.
I think they already do
They're using AI to generate summaries of chat logs.
I don't believe they've had an IPO yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if they start selling that data to hit profitability.
I think discord is primarily just useful for voice chat, yes.
But:
Yeah, no. Proprietary, sure, but you can say that about almost communication mechanism that's not a website with an API. It's not like people would otherwise be posting these things somewhere else if discord didn't exist. If it wasn't discord it'd be slack or something. Discord is an entirely different medium and complaining that it isn't a forum is just not a legitimate argument. They're entirely different things.
Why are people choosing to chat in some random meme spam for actual info instead of making a reddit/forum/something indexable post like everyone always used to is what ppl don't get
Matrix, for example, is an open protocol for real-time messaging.
I think the problem here really is that people are using discord to fill a niche that they wouldn't otherwise occupy if other options were as simple "make a server" (yes they aren't actual servers but that's not the point).
I will concede that it's still weird to see any FOSS communities on there.
its not open source, meaning its spyware
now seriously, i think its only issue is that it doesnt run well, and its even worse on phones. it works very well as a tool to create communities and talk to people.