vegan
Please also check out vegantheoryclub.org for a great set of well-run communities for vegan news, cooking, gardening, and art. It is not federated with LW, but it is a nice, cozy, all-in-one space for vegans.
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Welcome
Welcome to c/[email protected]. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on intersectional topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.
What is Veganism?
'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'
— abridged definition from The Vegan Society
Rules
The rules are subject to change, especially upon community feedback.
- Discrimination is not tolerated. This includes speciesism.
- Topics not relating to veganism are subject to removal.
- Posts are to be as accessible as practicable:
- pictures of text require alt-text;
- paywalled articles must have an accessible non-paywalled link;
- use the original source whenever possible for a news article.
- Content warnings are required for triggering content.
- Bad-faith carnist rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future.
- before jumping into the community, we encourage you to read examples of common fallacies here.
- if you're asking questions about veganism, be mindful that the person on the other end is trying to be helpful by answering you and treat them with at least as much respect as they give you.
- Posts and comments whose contents – text, images, etc. – are largely created by a generative AI model are subject to removal. We want you to be a part of the vegan community, not a multi-head attention layer running on a server farm.
- Misinformation, particularly that which is dangerous or has malicious intent, is subject to removal.
Resources on Veganism
A compilation of many vegan resources/sites in a Google spreadsheet:
Here are some documentaries that are recommended to watch if planning to or have recently become vegan:
- You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again
- Dominion (2018) (CW: gore, animal abuse)
Vegan Fediverse
Lemmy: vegantheoryclub.org
Mastodon: veganism.social
Other Vegan Communities
General Vegan Comms
Circlejerk Comms
Vegan Food / Cooking
Attribution
- Banner image credit: Jean Weber of INRA on Wikimedia Commons
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Posting the same link to the ASPCA isn't as compelling as you think it is. They don't touch on synthetic taurine at all, even though it's used in most commercial pet foods. Did they just forget?
I completely agree that a whole food vegan diet is terrible for cats, which is why cat foods are supplimented with the necessary nutrients. Your Blue Cross link agrees with me, where they say:
These synthetic suppliments are the while reason vegan cat food is possible. I'm not sure why the ASPCA is just ignoring the existence of synthetic taurine. Is there some issue with synthetic taurine that only the ASPCA knows about?
The issues brought up in all the articles boil down to unprocessed plants having low levels of necessary nutrients, but the plants are processed to extract these nutrients to bring them to acceptable levels.
There are definitely issues with vegan cat foods, but to put a blanket statement that they are not possible requires a bit better evidence than one group saying so, without acknowledging the key ingredient that makes vegan cat foods feasible.
I'm not all that interested in arguing beyond this point either. Your appeals to authority are unconvincing when the authority disagrees with you, or when they neglect to mention the primary counterpoint to their argument.
Wrong and wrong
Cats evolved to be carnivores. Period. This is not a debate. This is science. They need a meat based diet to survive healthily. Period. This is not a debate- this is science. Supplementing it with synthetic pretends and taurine is NOT the same thing.
Again… This is not a debate- this is SCIENCE.
Science says that creatures of all types need nutrients, not ingredients. That's why the more scientifically minded sources you have linked don't say outright that vegan cat food is impossible, they point out specific nutrients that may be hard to source in vegan foods.
The other articles seem obsessed with the idea that vegans are going to feed their cat a carrot and some broccoli, which is obviously wrong and inadequate. I'd like to compare like to like, so let's look at what most people feed their cats, dry kibble.
One of the main important nutrients that is present in meat and not plants is taurine. Some of the taurine in meat is destroyed when it is cooked, so they suppliment the meat with synthetic taurine. Both types of kibble have synthetic taurine, and this taurine had been studied extensively and is the same as the naturally occurring stuff.
A lot of these articles say a vegan diet is unnatural for cats and thus wrong. Your linked article on cats.com brings up a good point that cats whole lives as pets is unnatural. Cats natural habitat is in the wild, eating only what they catch when they catch it. Eating kibble or wet food on a schedule in a house is completely unnatural regardless of the makeup of that kibble. The makeup of the meat kibble is also not a cats natural diet, they would be eating small birds and rodents, not tuna and salmon.
If you have a scientific article that says otherwise is be happy to hear it. I'm happy to say that a meat based diet will be easier and simpler to give your cat, but science doesn't agree that meat is strictly necessary
No matter how to rationalize it- you’re wrong. And pushing YOUR diet on an animal with entirely different needs is borderline abuse- regardless of whether or not you’re willing to face this fact.
No matter what you feed you're cat, you are forcing a diet on them. They need certain nutrients, which I am providing them. They like the food. I don't see the issue with giving my cat nutritionally complete food that they like.
It's OK of you would rather feed you're cat something else, but I haven't yet seen a compelling reason not to use the nutritionally complete vegan food. We have different opinions and priorities and that's that.