this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
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Flippanarchy

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Flippant Anarchism. A lighter take on social criticism with the aim of agitation.

Post humorous takes on capitalism and the states which prop it up. Memes, shitposting, screenshots of humorous good takes, discussions making fun of some reactionary online, it all works.

This community is anarchist-flavored. Reactionary takes won't be tolerated.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 17 hours ago (17 children)

I understand that this is an anarchist comm, so you're free to post whatever you want, but I don't think it's productive to take a stance that fundamentally rests on misrepresenting what you're critiquing. Since you invoked my username in one of your comments here, I'd figure I'd give the Marxist stance its fair representation.

First, there is no such thing as "true communism." The obsession over purity in politics is a result of dogmatism and book workship.

Secondly, for Marxists, the stance isn't that you "do a state" and then "stop doing the state." For Marxists, not just Marxist-Leninists, the state is purely a body that resolves class contradictions through class oppression. It isn't hierarchy, and it isn't organization. Communism in the marxist conception, as a stateless society, is stateless in that once all property is collectively owned and planned, there is no class distinction. Administration remains, and is not to whither, as that's a necessary product of mass, industrialized production.

Taking that into account, the state can only disappear if all class disappears, and class cannot be abolished until all global production is collectivized. There has never been that point, you cannot have communism in one country. You can be socialist, in that public property can be the principle aspect of the economy and the state can be proletarian in character, but the state can never whither until all states are socialist, interconnected, and borders fading away into one democratic system.

Socialist countries like the PRC do rely on commodity production to engage with the global economy, as they must for the time being. They can't achieve a global system as one single country. As long as the state holds control of the large firms and key industries, and resolves class contradictions in the favor of the proletariat and against the bourgeoisie, then as the economy develops and grows it will continue to take on an increasingly socialized character. You cannot "declare socialized production" with the stroke of a pen, it's something that must arise from development. That doesn't mean the character of an economy that is dominated by public ownership is capitalist, either, just that it is on the "socialist road," ie it is socialist, and working its way to higher levels of socialization until communism is achieved.

This is all starkly different from the anarchist position, that we can develop from the outset a decentralized, horizontalist society. I'm not going to debatelord here, this is an anarchist comm, but if you're going to misrepresent the views of Marxists, then I feel you're doing a disservice by making anarchists less prepared to engage in productive conversation with Marxists.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

It feels a bit disingenuous to hear the following:

to engage in productive conversation with Marxists.

I mean I got your point the other day, that I shouldn't necessarrily argue about Communistic dogma without reading all the literature, but I had to fight tooth and nail to get to that point and not just be waved away as a bad faith actor. So I was already working hard just to be told to go and read up.

OP is using the same intensity hammer you guys got going on over there. Is it fair?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

I don't remember having this convo with you, so I don't have any reference for that convo. OP is misrepresenting the Marxist stance. It's one thing to critique the genuine positions Marxists have, it's another entirely to invent a strawman to argue against. The intensity of the argument isn't the problem, the illegitimacy of the argument is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The intensity of the argument isn't the problem, the illegitimacy of the argument is.

Yeah, I know OP is trolling. I see it is causing calls to not pull apart. Sure, maybe not every thread goes for the jugular on the hex server, but it fept by going against the grain I was a pariah immediately.

I mean at the end of the day it is petty squabbles on the internet, I just feel that we're missing out if we don't make a connection. Like, you seem smart, well read, and have a pretty novel world view that would interest me. I grew up in the context that communism is not of the devil, so it was terribbly disjarring that I finally saw a safe space to talk about the fallies of communism with hobby scientists on the matter.

I dunno, maybe I was devil's advocating and triggered a healthy response. It still feels off that I felt shut up there and now I see members of that community pleading for more open communication here.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Hexbear is a space for communists and anarchists to hang out, and there's a culture of cedeing no ground to ill-informed takes in order to help protect that space in a deeply anticommunist English-speaking internet. There's a strong culture of requiring well-sourced, developed, and informed takes in order to go against the grain.

The reason OP is coming under attack is because it's obviously just left-punching and baiting a response, and the post itself is ill-informed and misrepresentative.

I suggest that if you want to learn more on Hexbear, you try to use more open language. I see in that thread when you tried to be more clear that you aren't just another anti-communist, you got kinder responses.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I did get kinder responses, that is true. Though my main take-away wasn't a 'wow, these guys are awesome, I wanna read everything', more like a 'I'll only comment on anything political when and if I get past the literature they recommended'.

It is alright, I am sure the revolution will do just fine without my organizational skills. I am just arguing that OP is right to troll in this instance.

Again I want to emphasize, that I am really digging this convo, but I guess I have very little to lose as well. It feels like we are communicating, but I don't think I need to 'be the bigger man' by understanding the other side (these are my neuroses, no shade towards you, just where I'm coming from).

I feel you do understand me, yet don't really concede any points or validate them.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I understand you, I even agreed with what you guessed, that Hexbear gets a ton of bad-faith users and that sours interactions with better-meaning users that aren't on their A-game. However, I also disagree, I don't think OP is "right" to troll. As we already agreed, OP is doing so based on clear misrepresentation, it would be one thing if it had merit, but it doesn't, so that brought on a ton of users correctly debunking OP and pointing out that left-punching isn't productive to begin with.

You don't need to join Hexbear, it's totally fine to never go there if it isn't a good fit for you. At the same time, Hexbear isn't under the requirement to accomodate users that are antagonistic (which you at least appeared to be in the beginning, hence the backlash). It's totally fine for you to make dbzer0 your home and maybe peak into Hexbear if you see a good meme or two.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Well, thanks for being open. I feel we still didn't really address my concern, but that's alright. I see OP's post as a legit reaction to the emotions I got from there, even if they are clearly bad faith posting here.

Hey, maybe I'm just butthurt you didn't spoon feed me where I'm wrong, so no love lost.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think it was with you specifically, more hexbear in general? https://lemmy.ml/post/28545991

[–] [email protected] 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, good catch!

I sure do love being treated like I'm a part of a hivemind, and that everyone on Hexbear is interchangeable with no individual characteristics... 🫠 /s

Seriously though, I thought that was an odd statement, but that makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Yup, that was me. Sorry for mixing you up. I guess you spoke to me like a human there first, that's why your name stuck.

I feel it still doesn't take away too much from my argument. While OP's post is outright malicious and is meant to start a fight, I wasn't doing that on what I thought was a proper place for discussion.

Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions, and I did make a mistake, but don't you see what I'm trying to get at?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Personally, I try my best to adhere to the principle of "no investigation, no right to speak." I'm not perfect at that, but I do my best. Someone who has a strong stance on a subject without doing the due dilligence to justify that strong stance muddies the water. I believe you were guilty of it over in that thread, and I believe OP is guilty of it here. Does that make sense?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Goodness, does it ever.

But my problem was that the group put me in a box. Nobody wanted to know my level of education, just if I read this or that book on communism.

It is a totally fair reason not to engage in argument. It's just... How can I put it...? Just because I didn't read a book, I can't be knowledgable on a subject?

My guesses are that your community is so exposed to bad faith arguments, so you cannot give everyone the time of day. I haven't gone back to reread the thread, but you can probably see how I was basically backing into a corner through the whole thread.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago

It's a combination of Hexbear having a higher population of well-read communists and anarchists than most instances, and your guess that there are so many bad-faith responses that they are quickly shut down. Hexbear also doesn't have downvotes, so people are forced to actually reply if they want to express why they disagree.

As I said in the other comment, once you stepped back and clarified your position more, you were treated better.

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