this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
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Being a worker is empowering if you abolish Owners.
You can't really abolish ownership. Only transfer it. Abolish all private enterprise?
Congrats, the elite political class that rules your government now owns you. :)
You can abolish ownership and make decisions democratically. It's better than Capitalism where the wealthy few own the majority without democracy.
What does that even mean in the context of sex work? People no longer own their own bodies? Sounds disempowering to me. A dystopia!
Collective ownership, no individual ownership.
Sex work would still be fundamentally different though, it isn't the same as regular labor.
Collective ownership? So I can hop on your laptop and do whatever I want?
No.
You can use your laptop to start the next TikTok. Your laptop is a means of production.
I understand. Collective Ownership entails collective management of Capital based on agreed-upon rules. It does not mean nobody owns anything.
Where do you draw the line between capital and personal property?
Outlaw Capitalism, easy.
That's not an answer. That's just restating the name of your position.
Here's an example: suppose I buy a bunch of woodworking tools and put them in my garage. I now have a woodworking shop which I can use to make and sell furniture. Is that capital? Am I required to surrender my garage to the authorities?
Depends on what is democratically decided as the rule. The idea of buying a bunch of woodworking tools for the purpose of selling furniture is probably off the table (haha).
Why would you want to?
Because woodworking is a fun hobby that you can turn into a business. Because I value craftsmanship and attention to detail over mass-produced furniture. Because I believe in independent artisans, apprenticeships, and the sharing of knowledge.
If you are in favour of a world where this is not possible then I want no part of that. That sounds like a horrific dystopia!
I also believe you put far too much faith in democracy. Look at the democracies we have around the world today. Sure, they are not as bad as the totalitarian states but they are far from perfect. Democracies are also struggling from a crisis of faith in institutions. How are you going to build a collective society when everyone has lost faith in institutions?
You can have a hobby, why do you need to make it a business?
Democracy is better than a lack of democracy.
You make it a business to support yourself and your family. Otherwise you won't have much time to devote to it and you won't be as good as it.
Anyway, how are you going to get anyone in a democracy to vote away their own property rights? The Soviets certainly did not achieve that. They used violent revolution to achieve their ends. We all saw how that ended up. The most stalwart opponents of Marxism today are those who knew what it was like to live in the Soviet Union. A system where hard work is devalued and freeloading predominates.
Why would you make more money working by yourself, rather than at a job? Why can't you have a job and a hobby? Why would you be worried about providing for your family with robust safety nets?
Getting the workers to want to share ownership isn't veru hard, the ones with pushback are the minority that makes up exploitative owners.
Because lots of people don’t want to go into a job and work with other people. They would rather work by themselves or with their family members.
When you work in an office or at a factory you recognize that some people do way more work than others. If everyone’s getting paid the same then that is extremely demoralizing.
On top of that, you have all the politics and drama of the work place. Just because you succeed in a Marxist revolution doesn’t mean you have eliminated interpersonal conflict forever. Gene Roddenberry tried to portray that in Star Trek and it was laughably unrealistic.
Human beings are innately competitive for social and sexual reasons. That doesn’t go away when you eliminate private ownership of capital. People just find other ways to screw each other over and gain an advantage. Formal power structures get replaced by informal ones.
The deepest reason to want to have your own woodworking business is an overwhelming desire for self-sufficiency. When people have screwed you over and made your life miserable it’s an incredible escape to be able to switch to working for yourself. If you take that outlet away from people you will face violent resistance.
Who said everyone would get paid the same?
The rest of your comment is just vibes and isn't really backed by anything.