this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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No, my suggestion is to not "waste" your vote on an election where one candidate has already attempted to overthrow democracy but somehow still has a large number of supporters. My county votes somewhere around 85% Dem and the whole state always leans blue so there's no chance of Trump getting the nomination here, and in 2016 I was willing to vote on a 3rd party candidate to show my displeasure over Trump/Clinton... but in 2020 there was no way I was going to give up even one vote against Trump.
When both parties are equally bad, or when there's no doubt who will win anyway, then yeah definitely vote 3rd party and make a statement that we're tired of the same shit. But when the race is this close and one candidate has already stated his plan to do far more damage, then every vote counts and we really need to stick with the candidate who can actually win.
Democrats support Trump and the like in the GOP to have propped up extreme opposition and make you think it's your own idea to vote for them as the "lesser evil."
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428
...
If Democrats actually thought this, Trump (at minimum) would have been in federal prison on Biden's first day in office.
They either don't believe he's a fascist or are utterly incapable of dealing with fascists.
You want to throw someone in jail without a trial or having their day in court? I mean that's exactly what Trump has said he would do to everyone trying to prosecute him, but in a fair society you make a case and take it before a judge. And a case this big requires collecting a ton of evidence and making sure you have an air-tight case to convict. How many court cases does he have against him already? Yeah things are moving a lot slower than most people would like, but pretty much any big case like this would also be moving at a snail's pace. Everybody knows he's guilty, however if you don't get everything just right then he gets away on a technicality.
They killed Fred Hampton by shooting him in the head point blank when he was defenseless and wounded. The US is capable of unspeakable barbarity and arresting someone with a show trial is nothing.
Lmao hell yes I do, this happens for literally every serious criminal case (and a bunch of not-so-serious ones, too). If you actually took the idea that Trump is a fascist seriously, you'd be asking why shouldn't he simply have been shot.
If everybody knows a fascist is a fascist and your only solution is to follow the rules real hard and hope, you are a danger to the country and should be nowhere near the levers of power.
So anybody who does anything other than vote for biden is "wasting" their vote.
But you're not saying you just have to keep voting for the dems.
Ok
The day can't come soon enough when the general public starts treating you libs with the contempt you deserve.
Please, help trump get elected with that take. I'm sure you will be so much happier with the END of democracy. You don't seem to understand, this is an existential threat and voting a third party is throwing your vote away. Look at recent history of the other 3rd party runs, they spoiled the election for Gore and Hillary. You may not like dems but there is likely no coming back from the alternative.
Don't worry Dems are doing a way better job campaigning for Trump by openly supporting genocide.
Shaming the voters because your candidate lost has historically worked very well, very good idea, keep doing that.
HILLARY PERSONALLY TRIED TO GET TRUMP AS THE GOP'S CANDIDATE
It's still setting in how much this new tarrif on renewables pisses me off and I was just thinking I'm to the point I'm so fucking pissed at Biden and every stupid fucking move he makes that I've moved on from reasonable arguments and at thisnpoint my reaction to somebody trying to tell me Biden isn't a huge piece of ahit is pretty much "suck my fucking cock you dumbshit fascist hypocrite"
So in response to you insisting you're not saying everybody has to vote for biden and then immediatly lecturing me when I pointed out that's what youw are saying
suck my fucking cock you dumbshit fascist hypocrite
I hope Biden and every liberal who supports him gets hit by a bus.
He completely failed so badly the cou try is going to swing to fascism because he literally failed to prevent a better alternative and every one of you useless dumbshit liberals who has been carrying water for him is to blame.
I don't give a shit if you try to say I'm to blame, I've watched for 20 years as you've blown every possible decision, emboldened fascism at every step, and even now are punching left harder than you are punching right.
If you want to win the election stop being cartoonishly inept fascists and stop blaming the people who have been right about everything for the last 30 years while you've fucked them over while simultaneously lecturing them.
I have more contempt for you than chuds because chuds are at least honest that they hate me and were opposed. You dipshits constantly stab me in the back while lecturing me for not thanking you hard enough.
This country deserves nuclear hellfire.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
I could not have come up with a more perfect summary of why not only are dems going to lose but they could not more fully deserve it.
You really think that's a good answer, people voice all the completely legitimate reasons theyre fucking furious with this pathetic excuse of a political party and your answer is to infantalize them.
Seriously when Biden loses and you're telling yourself it's because of people who oppose genocide having morals being a bad thing I want you to remeber this comment.
It's funny how you're complaining about all the things "wrong" with this country, and yet you seem to be advocating for the candidate who wants to take away the rights of everyone who isn't white and obnoxiously rich. Yeah Biden is a fairly typical politician, but what has he done wrong other than Israel? What could he have done better that wasn't immediately blocked by the republicans? Or are you just mad that he's trying to move forward instead of sucking the dick of the oil companies?
Seriously, if you think the "left" is the problem here, then you haven't been paying attention to what's been happening in the House and Senate over the last couple decades. Check out ever bill that would have improved your life, and who voted against it. Check out who was creating those bills that would improve your life, and who was creating bills that benefited big corporations at your expense. Which party is constantly being caught suppressing voters and sponsoring bills to take away your rights? Which party is saying they want less government influence while trying to pass bills to dictate what every can and can't do? If you think the Republican party is doing anything at all with your interests in mind then I can only assume you're a boomer who remembers the party from 70 years ago and hasn't looked at anything they've done since then. Yeah politicians in general suck, but there's only one party actively working to make your life even worse.
I was taught that lying was wrong as a child yet Democrats keep lying to me about being a Trump supporter while being condescending.
Can you explain why lying to someone about something they already know is actually good and smart? Make sure to treat me like an idiot.
Criticism of Biden is not an endorsement of Trump. No one here is advocating for Trump. No one here is voting for Trump.
"other than Israel" like his lifelong, unwavering support for a genocidal apartheid state is just a little whoopsie-doodle and he isn't knowingly and willingly arming an entire fucking genocide. Fuck you.
But besides that: He has failed to protect trans rights, has failed to protect women's rights (Roe was overturned under Biden, remember), has failed to raise the minimum wage, has drilled for more oil than any other president in history, has made no meaningful actions towards climate change, has expanded Trump's racist border policies, he's warmongering with China and Iran, refuses to cancel student loans, sent uniformed thugs after people peacefully protesting his awful decisions, busted a rail strike, has done nothing about COVID (which is still happening), and he still owes me $1400. To say nothing of all the racist policies and warmongering he supported during his decades as a politician before becoming president.
Well thanks for at least providing an honest answer since the other guy couldn't answer a direct question to save his life.
So a few things I'm curious about... how would Biden have changed the SCOTUS ruling on Roe? He can't just unilaterally overrule them, and any bills for women's rights that you try to push through congress will get nuked by the conservatives. What's left?
Regarding the minimum wage... Yes there are still some sectors that are exempted, but Biden did push through an increase to $15/hr that covered a lot of workers. Big surprise, the only ones to challenge this increase were the GOP.
What else can anyone do about COVID? We couldn't even get people to wear masks at a time when their own family members were dying from it every week. Hell the county next to me defied a state mandate for masking, and then they had the nerve to get mad when someone in my county suggested closing off the hospitals to them since their own hospitals were over capacity. You just can't fix stupid.
And I didn't mean to come off as dismissive when I said "other than Israel"... I just meant that yeah this is a big blunder and I have no objection to holding him partially responsible for this. It's worth noting though that nearly all of Congress is also introducing and voting for bills to provide aid to Israel's genocide.
If he's so powerless to do anything why should I vote for him? Literally what have the Dems ever done with regards to abortion rights, other than using it for fundraising? Why do conservatives have all the power to do whatever ghoulish shit they want yet Dems are entirely powerless to do anything about it? Why didn't the Democrats try to enshrine abortions rights into law during one of the three times they had control of the House, Senate, and presidency during the nearly 50 years Roe was in effect (once each during Carter, Clinton, and Obama)? I want them to do fucking anything about it, because despite all the lip service, as far as I can tell they don't actually give a shit. "The GOP would block it" is not an excuse for not even trying.
Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema were both Democrats and they blocked minimum wage from passing. If the Democratic Party can't even get their own people in line to pass the most basic things why should I vote for them? The $15 minimum wage Biden enacted only covered federal workers, which is 370,000 / 164.5 million = 0.22% of the entire US work force. And raising the minimum wage was a campaign promise, which he immediately dropped after one attempt and hasn't tried again. Why should anyone believe any promise he makes in the next six months if all he can manage is one (1) half-assed attempt at raising the minimum wage to one that was barely enough to live on a decade ago, let alone now after massive inflation?
Literally anything???? They did a whole bunch of shit in 2020. More stimulus checks, protections for workers, mandatory paid time off for anyone who tests positive, literally just not ending the things they were already doing. COVID never went away, it's still killing people. Yet they just decided "whelp the pandemic is over, everyone back to work" and COVID was going to be a thing that kills people from now on. He's the president of the united states, it's literally his job to figure this shit out.
You should be holding him entirely responsible for this. He's fully aware of what he's doing and what the weapons are being used for. There's no excuse for genocide.
Fuck all of them too tbh.
You don't get to be a condescending asshole and then whine over stuff like this; incredibly soft posting
No one is advocating for Republicans.
Thank you for starting off your comment by saying I'm advocating for Trump and letting anybody that isn't blue Maga know you are a deeply unserious person.
I fucking hate Trump, my main critique of the dems is they're incapable or more likely unwilling to meaningfully oppose them.
You are like a small child just lashing out and then retreating to simple absolutes like "if anybody criticizes liberals for any reason you don't have to listen to them because they're just big meany Trump supporters"
I wish that the logical conclusions of your political ideology that discards anybody who isnt immediatly useful would happen to you but since you're a liberal I'm sure you'll just keep smugly telling yourself everything is everybody else's fault while stepping on the neck of the vulnerable you claim to care about.
I don't have words to express my level of disdain for you.
Seriously if it turns out "genocide is bad" is a negotiable value if it's too politically costly why should anybody believe you stand for anything.
You realize you're literally taking political hostages right?
"Endorse my genocide of Palestinians or else the same thing could happen to you, other vulnerable minorities"
Great coalition building strategy you've got there.
I love how you said above that you are giving all these legitimate reasons for hating Biden, and yet the only thing you really said was pro-Israel is bad (no objections there), and somehow pro-renewables are also bad. And yet when I asked what else you think he did wrong or what he could have changed that hadn't been voted against by the conservative congress, you just completely ignored it.
Maybe the problem here isn't people like me trying to vote for the least-damaging leader (because face it, it's either going to be Trump or Biden and nothing you say will change that)... maybe the real problem here is that you're arguing against what you assume are problems that would go away if Biden wasn't in office. Show me a good candidate that could actually win the office and I'll be happy to vote for them. Otherwise the best we can do is voting against the one who is going to hurt the most people.
Biden just signed into law higher tariffs on green energy products produced in China (where the vast majority are produced) in order to restrict supply and keep up the price of solar panels, EVs, and semiconductors in the US. Biden is building the same border wall Democrats were calling Trump a fascist for demanding in 2016, and expanding the immigrant concentration camps to boot. There's also the proxy war in Nazified Ukraine where Ukrainians are thrown into the meat grinder for the MIC and the exhaustion of Russia's resources, the continuation of global US military occupation and debilitating murderous sanctions on the DPRK, Cuba, Iran, and Venezuela. I fail to see where Trump is significantly worse.
Are we talking about the same Trump who set into motion and takes credit for destroying women's rights to the own bodies, and normalized racism again? Destroying other countries is par for the course with pretty much every other president, but Trump takes the cake in his success at tearing apart his own country.
When was racism not normalized in the US? Wrt abortion, as I’m sure you know it was democrats who refused to codify Roe v. Wade and made it all the more easy for it to be torn down, Biden in the first place openly stating he’s not in favor of “abortion on demand.” The reason it wasn’t codified, though, is that it then couldn’t be used as a campaign strategy by the democrats in future elections. As I said earlier in the thread under this post, it’s well-known that Hillary and the DNC attempted to elevate Trump in the GOP as preferred opposition as well as democrats more recently funneling millions of dollars into the election campaigns of Republicans who deny the validity of the 2020 election results because this makes for what they believe is easy competition. It feels ridiculous to have to mention as well that Roe v. Wade was repealed under Biden’s presidency, and if Biden doesn’t have the power to reverse this then what are you campaigning for?
Unfortunately you're right about racism... It seemed like it might have been getting better at least (although obviously it was still there under the surface), but then mister pussy-grabber made it seem like it was perfectly ok to hang out with the Proud Boys and openly hate anyone who was different. We're not going to fix racism in a generation or two, but at least we had gotten to the point where it was mostly frowned upon in mixed company to talk that way, which meant the kids weren't hearing it as often and understood there was a reason for it. Now a generation that could have sparked a real change has just been face-slammed with open hatred from a standing president and we've probably been set back a full generation on the subject. A similar argument can be made for LGBT+ where people who thought it was finally safe to be themselves are once again being attacked in public.
I'm not surprised about the DNC pushing Trump as a candidate in 2016, hell nobody believed he could win. As for pushing denialists and others... I'll have to look into that, it's not something I have heard about before. I still find that a lot easier to swallow than the GOPs constant tactics of direct voter suppression though
We’re not going to fix racism ever as long as the US exists as a settler-colonial state that keeps the majority of black people in worse conditions and imprisons them en masse. It’s not about rhetoric.
Don’t you get it? The Democrats are elevating Republicans so that they can do and campaign for these exact things which then motivates you to vote for the “lesser evil.”
For pushing denialists, here’s one source.
Dems use the threat against women's bodies as a way to buy your vote. They don't actually do the thing they could've done at points over the last several years, i.e. codify abortion rights into law at the federal level.
They also could've gotten RBG to resign or had literally any fight whatsoever over Garland. Instead they immediately made paper thin excuses and their voters happily clapped along. They even characterized the (milquetoast) call for RBG to resign as sexist, lol.
Y'all are a domesticated animals to your political class and the only thing you seem to be able to do is to try and get others to join you on your path to the abattoir.