this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024
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Human reproduction is the biggest con. The worst thing is, we're the ones fooling ourselves.
Never had any ambition or dreams that was greater than 1 life time? If not, yeah I could see how it's pointless to care for another human until its self sufficient.
If you want any part of you to achieve something past the one life you have, children are the only way ambition can continue. Hell even your kids could not want to continue but you got grand kids and so forth. One of them may. As parent all we so is provide Fondation for the dream to continue.
That seems pretty vain
Nope. That way lies delusions of grandeur. Life is short and I'd rather focus on living it today rather than worrying about a "legacy" I'll never experience.
And that way lies the kind of entitlement that leads parents to think their children's lives are their own.
You aren't achieving anything past your life. Your kids are. Their ambition is theirs, not yours. Stop thinking you can take credit for it.
Yes and no. 100% fair that you can focus on the now. just think of late game. my grandfather did that to his son and my father did the same and left me nothing and I despise them. Meanwhile my mom and her mom gave me everything I needed to do better than either of them so I fulfilled their dreams of better life by giving thier struggles meaning. And I 1000% Believe my mom and her mom can take partial credit for my achievements. They put the work to get me the foundation for me to do what I did. If my father had custody of me I would selling in jail for selling drugs like my cousins.
And I'll all but guarantee you they did those things simply because they love you, not because of some grandiose idea of a "legacy" or a desperate need to live beyond their death.
Planning for the future in order to care for your family and friends is an expression of love, not ambition.
Totally. I wouldn't be shocked if it never crossed thier minds. Someone like myself can't operate without at least 2 specific reasons to do anything. I just gave one that was broad. There other reasons are more like overall personal growth or REVENGE but end of day I really think someone needs to think hard on why they want kids before they have them. My SO mom looks at us with resentment, jealousy, and pettiness because we live the life she didn't. Of course her mom also did the same to. Just curses all the way back. Can't have that.
Lmao, I can't have dream that are further than next week. By the time my kids grow up, their dreams will be what, the next hour?
Yeah lol, I been having this convo with my SO for decades. kind of the issue we all have. Expect in that case like dreams, humans can also pass curses on thier kids.
Think of it this way, humans been in bad positions since before all this current bs and dreams like flight still happened. Example industrial rev era was trash. To persevere is to achieve victory we can just lay bricks.
Jfc, imagine bringing a life in to this world for the sole purpose of them being a vehicle for your ambition to, what, have some "legacy" you've convinced yourself you have, live forever? 🤯🙄🤦♀️
And it's people like you who are then completely shocked and horrified when your kids don't want to any contact with you anymore, or when kids of people like you never want to reproduce because they don't want to inflict a similar existence on to anyone else..
Its more that humanity is a long line of tragedy and triumph echoing through eternity, and being able to extend your accumulated wisdom to the next link in the chain is both exciting and challenging in a way nothing else in life really is.
That's a weird thing to say, because I've found my parents and in-laws and siblings/cousins to be absolutely invaluable. I think the modern western lifestyle may have seriously fucked this generation. And if you've become alienated from your parents AND your kids, that's definitely a shit existence.
But I would present an alternative. Don't. Stay in contact with the people you love, whether that's blood relatives or found family. Be nice to people and try to make the time together pleasantly memorable.
Then maybe your kids will want to share that experience with their kids, and you get to add another link in the chain of existence.
Lol sole vehicle! No way! thats too short sighted. That's the whole blood line is for.
If my kids don't want to construct a Dyson sphere so be it. I'm not going to force them. What I will do is force them be successful and build upon the success I made so that there is chance I can be part of it in some shape or form long after I'm gone. Squandering all the effort I put into this life like some trash billionare while they willing do nothing with thiers would be the biggest slap in the face to me. Think inception all you have to do put the idea. If it doesn't take that's OK they just put another brick down in the foundation.
This is the most arrogant thing I have seen in a while. Stop using kids to achieve your own goals. Use people who actually care. It shouldn't be hard to find people who want to build a Dyson swarm (a dyson sphere isn't realistic even). As for forcing people to be successful: that's not how success works, how having kids works, and ignores the shit show that is modern society.
Your act like I'm forcing them at gun point. Forcing anything on anyone is counter productive. Me doing what I want has already achieved the goals of many people that came before me. My predecessors didn't force any of that on me. I wanted it. It's just statistics and I am just the part of them that met their dreams. All everyone before had to do was keep struggling to get me here. Just like I plan for my children and teach them the value of passing it on so thier kids don't struggle as hard and have it easier to achieve thier own goals. 40k years later hey maybe something happends that I would love to be there for but that statistical chance will never happen if I don't have any kids or raise them to be all they can be in world that likes to grind us.
Some people would say that attempting to reach your own self-fulfulment through your children is a form of child abuse. Certainly it can easily become abusive and I don't think it's a positive pattern to encourage.
Having a child aught not be about what you want or even what you need. That's backwards, and it's exactly the sort of lie we tell ourselves to try to post-hoc rationalize a decision that our bodies have made for us, and we want to believe we made for ourselves.
I have seen what i think you are talking about. Forcing your kids to be be a famous actor or something. No I'm talking about the dream of living on Mars or experiencing the last star die. Something I cannot do in this lifetime. Why did my grandma, mom, myself work hard and spend responsible if not to pass that down to the next player so they can have a better start, grow it, and continue? I am the summation of 10,000 years of human suffering dreams, ambition, etc. Seems like a waste of all their hard work not to continue. This has nothing to do with what my body wants but what I want. Lol I know plenty of people like my sister who's body it telling them hard no.
That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about simple emotional dependence on your children for your own needs. That is a classic abusive inversion of the relationship.
Once you die, it's over. Dead people don't have interests. Making plans for when you are dead is even more irrational than convincing yourself that having children is a benefit to you or anyone else. All this stuff about fulfilling your ancestor's legacy is romantic twaddle you use to confuse yourself.
Confuse myself? I normally associate confusion with not knowing where to go or what to do. I have drive, Ambition, and clear direction since before I left HS. Decades later it still drives me.
agree it's over when you die. Isn't that why we want to make the most of it? If your goal is to live your individual life to the fullest than that's it. Can't take anything to the grave but your shirt so spend it all! And 200% don't have kids. I having burning hate for my father and his kind for that behavior. If your goal is dream of a better tomorrow and struggle for your kids as it had been for thousands of years of human history than that's it too. Like that's why we try to save the planet so our children can enjoy it too.