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The issue with vaccines is though that you need herd immunity. You need at least 90% vaccinated, better 95. Add in people that cannot be vaccinated (immuno compromised, people who are already very I'll from something else, etc) and you have basically no space for healthy individuals to refuse vaccinations. If they do, vaccines will work less well.

I know what hurd immunity is and I said as much. Maybe try reading before you jump to conclusions.

Hurd immunity works really well for things like smallpox or measles because you have vaccines that prevent transmission effectively (not just symptoms, actual transmission and infection), and they don't mutate very quickly so as to overcome the vaccines. It never worked perfectly against influenza because of antigenic shift meaning the virus mutates faster than you can make new vaccines to treat it. There are also too many varieties for a single vaccine to treat. HIV is the same problem on steroids, that's partly why there are no vaccines for it. COVID vaccines face the same issue. This doesn't mean that the vaccines are useless, or that they don't help reduce hospitalisation - I never claimed this at all. Rather it means that by themselves they won't eliminate the disease in their current state.

You specifically talk about hitting 90% of people vaccinated in order to create hurd immunity. That's exactly what we have in the UK, yet still we see infections and deaths.

And on forced medical treatment and vaccines it shows that you too don't understand how vaccines work. No, vaccines don't give 100% protection but it's like wearing a bullet proof vest and get shot at. You still get injured but a shit load less than without. Some people get shot and still die (Bullets hitting US vests were allowed to push up to 2 inches into the chest, which CAN be lethal). Same with vaccines. You have to start thinking in %. Instead of 90% getting sick, now only 5% gets sick and instead of millions dying, only hundreds die.

What makes you think I don't understand vaccines? I probably understand them better than you do. Be honest did you know what antigenic shift was before I brought it up? Do you know what the difference between a killer CF8+ T cell and a CD4+ helper T cell is and what roles they play in the adaptive immune response? What's the difference between a complement protein and an antibody?

I am not claiming vaccines do nothing. I myself have had three of them. What I am saying is this:

a) you can't ethically force any treatment including a vaccine on someone outside of very specific circumstances like a mental health crisis

b) that the effectiveness of COVID vaccines were oversold to the public

c) that said overselling combined with other lies, exaggerations, bad policy and bad research created public distrust that has set back vaccine advocy and science advocacy for a decade or more

d) labelling anyone who has any concerns at all about COVID policy or vaccines as anti-vaxxer or anti-science only hurts advocacy, encourages misinformation, and discourages critical thinking

e) that we need more than just vaccines to fix COVID. That's why we have other treatments and prophylactics like antiviral medicine. This is already used against other diseases like Influenza and HIV that show resistance to vaccination via antigenic shift.

Like it's actually no wonder we have antivaxxers after everything your average pro vaccine person has done, on top of all the government scaremongering, hypocrisy and plain incompetence shown in the pandemic. If you want an example of what that looks like look no further than the UK, where I live. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate