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As bans spread, fluoride in drinking water divides communities across the US (kffhealthnews.org)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

371 comments fedilink hide all child comments

…

It is a scenario playing out nationwide. From Oregon to Pennsylvania, hundreds of communities have in recent years either stopped adding fluoride to their water supplies or voted to prevent its addition. Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice. The broad availability of over-the-counter dental products containing the mineral makes it no longer necessary to add to public water supplies, they say. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that while store-bought products reduce tooth decay, the greatest protection comes when they are used in combination with water fluoridation.

The outcome of an ongoing federal case in California could force the Environmental Protection Agency to create a rule regulating or banning the use of fluoride in drinking water nationwide. In the meantime, the trend is raising alarm bells for public health researchers who worry that, much like vaccines, fluoride may have become a victim of its own success.

The CDC maintains that community water fluoridation is not only safe and effective but also yields significant cost savings in dental treatment. Public health officials say removing fluoride could be particularly harmful to low-income families — for whom drinking water may be the only source of preventive dental care.

“If you have to go out and get care on your own, it’s a whole different ballgame,” said Myron Allukian Jr., a dentist and past president of the American Public Health Association. Millions of people have lived with fluoridated water for years, “and we’ve had no major health problems,” he said. “It’s much easier to prevent a disease than to treat it.”

According to the anti-fluoride group Fluoride Action Network, since 2010, over 240 communities around the world have removed fluoride from their drinking water or decided not to add it.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

How many times have governments touted their own programs as successful and not been quite right? Are you really that easy to propagandize?

I don't know. Maybe 2 or 3 times in human history. Is being wrong about one thing mean you are wrong about everything?

I urge you to look a little deeper and use logic.

I also urge you to the same. You can start by looking at the multiple studies backing up this practice and learning about the logical fallacy of circumstantial ad hominem.

It’s not easy for governments and large companies to put out press releases and bad studies to support their position.

Umm ok

It’s never good to add neurotoxins to tap water

Different dosages different impacts. Water can kill you if you drank enough.

where dosage is impossible to control

Metering pumps are typically what I have seen and used. Pretty easy to control. Basic steps are

If pump is on observe 4-20mA signal from the sensor. Which is usually looped powered 2-wire. If it is too low, then signal contactor to the metering pump while observing. Usually I have done a simple latch circuit with a blackout period for this. Basically the water fluoride live between two control points, a high and a low. Once high is achieved the metering pump is cut off from power. Over time the main pump brings enough new water in that the levelsof fluoride fall to the lower point. At which point the contactor goes in and the metering pump goes on again.

Since you don't want to add it to still water (you never add a base or acid to still water if you want accurate application) you put the main pump(s) as the interlock. If you are wondering why I don't use a PID for control on this is because I can't find a metering pump with large range speed control to make it worth it.

The blackout zones are for sensor problems. Usually a simple rule like "if metering pump has been on and is now off wait three minutes before turning it on again regardless of what sensor says". It is far easier to go over vs go under so try to bias it one way vs the other.

I guess AMA if you want to know more about this stuff. Been in automation and control for 15 years now.

and the water is used for far more than tooth care.

That's nice.

Is there no concern about toxic substances building up in the soils in our farms and gardens? What about wildlife that has to deal with our drugged water?

Sure bioaccumulation. Go to the EPA or your state's DEP and ask them about the research they have done on it. Lots of environmental chemists work researching this topic. It's a bit anecdotal but every WWTP I have been too, which presumably would have the most of the fluoride, has pretty abundant wildlife. Turns out feces and water makes plants happy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Different dosages different impacts. Water can kill you if you drank enough.

Ok, so this excuses adding anything to the water doesn't it? I say we Ozempic because it helps people with diabetes.

Metering pumps are typically what I have seen and used. Pretty easy to control. Basic steps are

I'm not talking about acccurately adding fluoride to water, I'm talking about the impossibility of controlling or knowing the fluoride intake of a person when it's added to tap water, which is not only consumed directly but also indirectly when things are made using fluoridated water.

Your last argument amounts to "I don't give a shit about it's effects on anything else, it helps my teeth".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Ok, so this excuses adding anything to the water doesn’t it? I say we Ozempic because it helps people with diabetes.

non sequitur. Thought you liked logic. A very small percentage of the population is diabetic, all of the population has some level of teeth problems. But I am confident you will bring it up 19 or so more times.

m not talking about acccurately adding fluoride to water, I’m talking about the impossibility of controlling or knowing the fluoride intake of a person when it’s added to tap water, which is not only consumed directly but also indirectly when things are made using fluoridated water.

The amount of water you take in is highly connected to your body weight, one goes up the other goes up. Higher body weight means you need more fluoride to have an issue. The only way to break this is to consume multiple times what the average is for your body weight for long periods of time. So much so I doubt your kidneys would be able to process that much water. But hey you can prove me wrong. Go look up what consumption levels you need for your body weight and how much is in your local supply.

Your last argument amounts to “I don’t give a shit about it’s effects on anything else, it helps my teeth”.

No I mentioned nothing about my teeth. I pointed out a very simple way you could get the information to back up your "argument". Then I mentioned that the place where we should see the biggest issues, in my limited experience, is where we weren't.