this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
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I don't think any data centers would be using ground water for cooling. They'd likely be on closed loop systems. And the power draw is only an issue if we decide to not fix where the grid gets its power from.
So it is and remains an unavoidable problem with frivolous AI use for the foreseeable future?
No, because there are already locations in the world where clean grids exist. Focusing on AI use as an environmental problem is not helpful. Focus on the source of the energy, not it's uses.
If you place a data center in a 100% green location, then you're reducing the supply of 100% energy, so everything else has to consume less green energy. Therefore, by using 100% green energy you just increased your carbon footprint.
Green energy, like all resources, is limited. If you waste it on a glorified food predictor you can't use it on a electric harvester that will feed the people.
Even if you want to avoid this problem and create your own green power plant for your own data center (creating the green supply and demand at the same time), you are still spending green energy resources (rare metals and manufacturing capacity) that went into creating your powerplant instead of creating a powerplant for electric harvesters.
There's no way around it. Misusing electricity is accelerating climate change, one way or another. Even if the energy you are misusing is 100% green.
How many AI data centers are in the countries that have clean grids, as opposed to the US?
“Please don’t pay attention to the gorilla setting the house on fire, just give the gorilla a better source of fuel.”
“Also, that guy over there is using a magnifying glass to light paper on fire, ignore me using napalm since fire is just fire”
data center engineer here! incorrect
Genuine question -- how does it "use" that water? Isn't it primarily utilized for plain old water cooling, where in mind it just evaporates at worst?
I think they mainly use evaporative cooling systems. Industrial sites often have closed loop cooling systems for equipment and large cooling towers to control the air temperature in large buildings. It probably depends on geographic location. Evaporative cooling is much more effective in areas with low humidity.
Then regulations should be put in place to ban that practice. There is no good excuse to not be on a closed loop system.
yes true
We live in capitalism, comrade. The fact that it costs money to make it a closed loop system is the best possible excuse not to
But that costs $ and Microsoft doesn’t make money by spending it when they absolutely don’t have to.
That's right! They're better off spending it on lobbying so they end up getting more money!
Companies have up to a 1000-1 ROI on lobbying.
Link
It’s foolish not to buy what’s on sale.
Of course the power draw is an issue. There's no 100% clean energy and our grid is still not 100% renewable. If we continue expanding the energy use in frivolous projects, we're barely moving the needle. We want to do both, reduce energy use and clean up the grid.
Whilst I don’t want to debate the energy usage here.
How do we define frivolous projects? Some might think the LHC was frivolous but it had real world benefits.
It's definitely a spectrum, with crypto sitting at one end and heating homes in the winter on the other.
There is absolutely no stretch of the imagination that could define AI generated waifu masturbation fuel as anything but frivolous. Comparing that to the LHC, which has advanced our understanding of physics, is both insulting and deeply unserious.
I don’t recall making a direct comparison. In fact people said the same thing about the LHC. It is literally impossible to no what the future will bring.
There is no future in which generating scantily clad anime waifus will be comparable to progressing our understanding of physics, even if you dance around it.
Where you’re getting the waifu shit from is beyond me, but if you can’t see past that then we have little to discuss.
All I am saying is we literally have no idea where any of this tech will lead. It could lead nowhere it could lead to breakthroughs in other areas. Anybody that pretends to know, is lying or being disingenuous.
Found the escaped AI entity guys! It’s right here!