guismo

Sorry, you wrote a lot and I feel disrespectful not to answer, but you are really seeing this in a very emotional and deep manner. It would end up being just a fight. I am not trying to offend you and what you consider important. You just have to understand that others might not find it as important for various reasons.

There would be much I could talk about, but better not to let this get emotional. I am just looking for a place, not trying to change how anyone sees the issue.

Another user mentioned his town have monuments built in 80s. I believe a number of them built monuments just because there is a consensus that you have to do it. It became like an unwritten law (I think it's actually a law). You have to build monuments, you have to keep remembering, you can't question it. If you do you are a traitor and deserve consequences. The usual issue with patriotism of any kind. If you are not with us, you are with them.

And yes, the specific things that need to be remembered and all the rest that can be forgotten. It is the base of my problem with the memorials. "Remember this, don't mind the rest" Police, doctors, every day people who give their lives for something don't get monuments and the rules that defines what does troubles me.

Thank you for the very neutral answer. I would say it's the most respectful position I ever heard an Australian saying.

The thing with gravestones is that; 1- They eventually get forgotten. You can't remember every dead person forever, you can't remember every war (what about with the aboriginals? why is that forgotten?). No "lest we forget" stuff, and it's been long enough. 2- Any event related to it is almost always hurtful, said, and can't be manipulated. You suffer visiting the grave of your loved ones. You don't celebrate. And you don't make one in every corner and ignore every other people who died. I have always heard Australians talking about pain regarding remembering, I have never seen anyone or any event even remotely giving that feeling. (RSL with gambling and drinking? whould you do that to remember you dead son?). So as I said before, if there noble intentions with these things, they don't seem to have ever happened or everything I saw was an exception.

But regardless, it's a war where you go to kill people. Your intentions are noble and so does the "enemy" thinks as well. I feel uncomfortable with any monuments to that, justified or not. But again, that's just me. I understand the reasons even if they don't seem to work in the end to me.

By all means defend yourself you're invaded. Just never (to me) let you going there to kill the guy who invaded be celebrated.

Edit, ah, I didn't want to say my country of origin because I didn't want it to affect opinions (I could be from Iraq, who knows?) But it's Brazil. Brazil did send people to the war, but it's a very religious country, so most monuments are for religion, while here it's war. In fact to me war seemed like Australian's religion.

Which town was it if you don't mind me asking? Or maybe you could PM me if it's sensitive information? Is it cold? It's another thing I'm avoiding, which is why I'm all over Queensland. Thanks

Lemmy is difficult. So much more than reddit... It could be like Linux. Something you try again and again and eventually get the hand of it or accept it. I spend many years going back and forth between using Linux and not using it at all until I got completely rid of Windows. And I do not regret it at all!

But it wouldn't have happened if people stopped trying to make Linux's transition easier. I don't believe I'm harmful to the Linux community. It could be that it would be the same for people on reddit. I hated being on windows, but I still kept using it until the alternative seemed viable to me.

Of course I could be wrong and the community destroyed. But then... a new community elsewhere? I'm an old man on the internet, I've seen this happening a lot. Filters after filters after filters and some times the end result is perfect.

To me, that part, just like the war, should be learned about, its consequences dealt with, and forgotten about and just shamed. This happened before anyone I know was born. We will live with the consequences but it's not their fault.

But unlike the wars, I don't see monuments for aboriginal genocide. Oddly enough, I don't see monuments remembering the murdered aboriginals either. Even though most of the small towns I've been to had a rich history of aboriginal massacres.

Many people have lost loved ones who’ve fought in wars to protect them. So they try remember that honour and sacrifice, to show respect for the lives lost and to remember what they fought for.

The thing is, I come from a different country, so it's natural for me to think "what about the other side? didn't they lose lives? wheren't those lives taken by Australians, same as the Australians where taken from them?"

I don't have patriotism. Australian lives are as important as Turkish, Korean, Vietnamese, etc, etc. If there should be a monument for Australian lives lost, there should be a same amount for lives Australians took. There should be no monument for anyone taking anyone's lives in my opinion. I have the same opinion for my country of origin.

Would you not be upset if those close to you died?

I would be upset if someone close to me died. But if he died going to a war to kill someone, I would never blame who killed him, but who made him go there. There is a vilain and an enemy in these stories, but I think it's usually not the guy with the weapon. It's the guys behind them. Every soldier usually think he's fighting for something good (except a big part who just really enjoy killing).

Because you seem to dislike war, you’re placing the values you see onto others. You need to gain perspective and realise the intent of why we honour the dead and remember our history. It is not to glorify war.

Unfortunately I can't make my question about the towns without exposing my reasons, my feelings regarding the issue. I do not plan to change anyone's point of view here (and I regret that I am debating, but how can I talk about it without expressing my reasons?), just trying to find how to live happily in a society with a few values I don't share. Every country will have that.

Sorry about the gun comparison. I am ignorant of the laws regarding guns. I thought gun owners had to prove every once in a while the gun is safe and they are sane.

And as I said in another post, I think the intentions of the memorials, if they are as you say, are not having the proper effect.

Yes, that's often what people tell me. But the actions and behavior in general tell a different story.

It's not something someone can say "I'm proud because we killed people", like many patriotic feelings, but the feeling is still there, just in different words. "I'm proud because we defended freedom".

But the americans believe that about all the current invasions. And australians go to each one of them. So it seems the mistake keep being repeated, and glorified again and again. I see many memorials about vietnam, korea, even iraq and so on. So if people are supposed to learn a lesson, it just seem to be that it should be perpetuated.

Which is why it bothers me a lot.

Ah yes, many of the ones I went to didn't have military history. Yet they made worship monuments just for the war in general. As a kind of obligation or something. I see RSL as just a place where people can go to gamble, so I don't even really associate it with military. It was much later that I learned that it's not just a gambling and drinking club, but something related to military which was a very weird mix to me.

ANZAC... yes... I dislike that a lot, but you can just avoid any event, unlike monuments everywhere.

Did your city not have any monument?

Thanks for the answer. I disagree with the opinion regarding "sacrifices", "way of life" and so on, but it's one shared by the majority of Australians I talked to, so I can't really debate it. I do respect it however. It's something you consider culturally important. I hope you understand I see it in a different way as someone who came from a foreign country that could as well be invaded and have the same rethoric.

Since I just made an account, I've been wanting to give my opinion on this for a while.

I agree that the usual reddit people would destroy a nice community like aussie.zone. But I wanted to mention that the bad kind of people from reddit would not try to find an alternative. They are happy there. There are decent people who want out, but don't know where to or how. I am very confused with lemmy (not that I am a decent person, that remains to be judged), and I would have appreciated more help. So helping people dissatisfied with reddit might be helpful as they are unlikely to be bad (or at least not belonging to the normal reddit bad) and wouldn't harm the community.

I have some other opinions as well but that was the main point I wanted to bring every time I see this kind of comment.