SomeoneSomewhere

joined 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

I expect structural life of the tunnels isn't much longer than the services within them, especially with roads above.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Boring through rock is super slow and expensive, plus now your tunnel needs to be big enough to walk & run machines through, and needs aircon to keep it cool. It is done, but usually only in CBD areas where you need lots of cables and room for future expansion. Google 'cable tunnel' and you'll find lots of examples. Trenching machines go through very expensive consumable digging teeth whereas bucket trucks are just a fancy forklift, burning fuel and needing hydraulic & engine maintenance.

With high voltage cables, the (really thick) insulation gets really expensive, plus you need more conductor (copper/aluminium) because the insulation needs to stay cool. Aerial lines are directly air cooled (better cooling), and can run hotter, because the limit is the metal getting too hot and sagging, not the plastic degrading. Glass insulators are only needed at every tower and can be easily replaced.

Because keeping the conductor small is important, you need to use expensive copper rather than cheap aluminium for cables.

You also need regular joints which are very labour intensive, because they have to be perfect and you can't make a cable the full length because you can't ship a drum that big.

If a cable fails, fixing it is much harder than fixing an aerial issue. There was a cable fault in LA in 1989 that took 8 months of round-the-clock work to fix. When a tower falls over (usually because of slope failure or undermining), temporary structures are usually up in a couple of days.

Digging trenches under roads is much more invasive than pulling cables over roads, and rivers are even worse to deal with. It's very common for underground cables to be converted to overhead when they cross a river before heading back underground.

The Western HVDC Link between Scotland and England was built as an undersea cable because it's so hard to get planning permission and land rights to do major projects in the UK, as High Speed 2 found out.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Yeah, we have lots of underground services here in NZ. It's when you start getting to low population densities that you start having trouble doing it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Plenty of cities have 'steam tunnels' used for far more than just steam pipes, and sometimes no steam in there at all. It's an awesome solution where you have reasonable density, and especially for within a facility/campus.

I don't think you're going to see it happen in surburban streets. It's the tyranny of the car.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago

I can't find the exact shot, but I used to have a picture of the 220kV lines parallel to the Desert Road as my desktop background. Something like this:https://johnmathews.smugmug.com/Nov-18-Desert-Road-North-Island/i-CkSm5tK

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (7 children)

Underground works well for greenfields construction, where you can map everything out ahead of time and don't have to deal with existing underground services.

It's manageable on low-density streets where its really only three waters and maybe some telephone lines.

It's a nightmare to underground existing infrastructure in dense environments. Underground is already full of three generations of critical comms, corroding gas, water, HV lines that will fail if you look at them wrong, and if you're really unlucky, steam pipes too.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Still about a 10x cost difference, plus (particularly on transmission lines) there's issues with extra capacitive loading.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Oh, I mixed up your post. Sorry.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (3 children)

If you're considering the US federal government (excluding the newly elected carrot...) 'tyrannical', what civilisations are you considering not tyrannical? The list has to be very, very small.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (2 children)

None of the definitions of tyranny I see have a restriction on scale. You can be a tyrant ruling a hundred people or a billion. It's technology (transport, food storage, writing/communication) and geography that limit the size of a tyranny. I'd argue lots of small tribal societies wander into tyranny; it's just hard to rule over multiple islands when you don't have writing or metals.

There's religions in Asia other than Buddhism.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (4 children)

There was rampant cannibalism in Polynesia along with all kinds of infighting. Maori gods have plenty of murder and war in the mythology.

War in Asia goes far wider than just one empire. Imperial Japan were thoroughly tyrannical during WW2, as well as many other conflicts.

Any civilisation that could spare, mobilise, and feed enough people to form an army basically did so, sooner or later. It's a supply lines and population problem. Small populations can't raise large armies and send them long distances.

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