3/4 wins.
The health insurance lobby wins their vote, but the rest is a win for poorer and middle classes and environmentalists.
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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I'm not surprised the EFAS got approved. It is a complex topic where you would need to read almost the whole KVG to truly understand what's going on and the messaging of the opponents was sub-optimal to put it mildly.
The opposing opinion in the official booklet, at least for the German version, was incomprehensible and without concrete links to the substance of the issue or their claims. E.g. HOW are the insurers getting more power? What will they be able to do, that they can't already? What are the absolute numbers, that show that premiums will rise, when the official report mentions sinking costs? Why will the quality of care deteriorate? They mention privatization, but don't tell you what would facilitate that...
The Pro side mainly stressed the positive of correcting the disincentives towards cheaper ambulatory treatments through changing to the uniform financing formula, which in and of itself and without further context is a valid and good point. Both substantively and politically.
And my biggest problem lies with the official 'examining review' from the Federal Chancellery. I know it is normal to try and project what the changes in law could affect in reality. Imho they did it in a biased way. Why am I saying that? Because every argument and scenario they brought up was positive and basically the pro-opinion reads like a summary of the official review. Also: When making simplifications from the actual legal text, they used a more positive description (E.g. "coordination" vs. "restriction" talking about the states limiting offered services). There aren't many absolute numbers to understand just how much money will shift between insurers, states and patients and what that would mean. In such a situation it is even more incumbent on the opponents to make the downsides clear and fill those gaps.
Yeah the booklet in french was also quite shockingly oversimplified langauge that didn’t seem fair.
And when the best detailed argumentation you can find against is a pdf from the against group that’s not super well sourced, it really didn’t feel like a fair vote in the way it was presented and explained.
I was super suprised my canton voted nearly 60% against.
This round of referenda was a major shift to the left, I wonder why.
Drove from Geneva to Lausanne the other day, the traffic was crawling the whole way. It was busy but not dreadfully so
Absolutely fuck all to do with the size of the motorway or the density of the traffic but 1000% the fault of the selfish, arrogant Geneva banker wankers in their Beamers and Mercs, hogging the fast lane and driving WAY too close to the car in front, causing tailbacks by braking too harshly
Start fining these cunts and making them take time off work to attend driving courses, that'll solve the entire motorway problem
Or take a fuckin direct train from Geneva to Lausanne. Why would you ever drive this route?..
Traffic flow would theoretically be smoother if everyone understood basic fluid dynamics concepts, but their selfishness would make that pointless because it would turn into "yes, I could go slower to make traffic go more smoothly for the people behind me, but fuck them! I gotta get my caramel white chocolate macchiato!"
if everyone understood basic fluid dynamics concepts
Man, y'all have a much higher bar over there.
Only if "over there" is in my brain because I'm in the U.S. Worse, I'm in Indiana. But I am trying to get out of both.
Ok so you're west of me and not east of me, but we agree on the need for basic life skills in the curriculum here. How not to bounce a check and fluid dynamics.
Technically I am both west and east of you due to the shape of the Earth but now I just feel like being obnoxious and yes, we agree.
Isn't the swiss railway system pretty fucking good? Why did you drive instead of taking a train?
If you don't take the train regularly it's also pretty fucking expensive. If you need to take the train more often there are options to buy a "subscription" so you only pay half price for the ticket or even one where you can ride all year for "free" but the threshold is pretty high.
It's not that expensive if you have a yearly pass and use them on a daily basis for work and leisure
Seems kinda dumb to have a system that actively discourages people from starting to take the train.
It's not discouraging you to take them. You don't need a car in the country and a car is actually expensive (taxes, insurance, gas, etc.).
The public transport system in unified. One ticket is valid on all the transports. A pass is valid on all the means of transport, even some cable cars.
You can buy a pass for the country or for a local area.
I want to eat an ice-cream in Ticino because of the sun. I hope on the train and go there for the day. No congestion, no driving, nothing. Also, you don't need a reservation in long distance trains. It's like a metro system.
If you charge infrequent users of the system twice as much as frequent users of the system, they will be much less likely to even try the system and experience the perks you mention.
Don’t forget all the diplomats. Additionally, they will never be pulled over. They can basically do whatever they want.
Is that the arseholes with the CD numberplates?
Exactly. CD supposedly stands for the French term „Corps Diplomatique“
Yep. CD = Corps Diplomatique
Rare win i guess
Name a more iconic duo. Based based based.
Good for them but 45% voter turnout? Even the US has had better turnout for at least the last decade.
45% is completely normal here. We have votes every couple months, you vote when you’re interested.
Our “yearly voter turnout” is around 76%
About 80% of voters did vote over the last few years, just not every time.
Oh? Do you have a source for that? I'd really love to confirm it to be true ❤
It is a quote from the Author of Heute Abstimmung!, see here: https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/politologin-stadelmann-steffen-im-interview-595917375269 it is the response to the question: Die Stimmbeteiligung liegt heute bei rund 50 Prozent. Ist das gut oder schlecht?
When you get to vote for multiple submissions every 2-3 months, turnout tends to be lower. Probably only people who hold a strong opinion about the topics of the current vote will actually vote.
Legally, every 3-4 months on the federal level.
You can add the cantonal and municipal levels. But, often, these took place at the same time.
Yeah, sometimes I skip a vote when I don't really care about the topic. This time I voted, and I'm happy about the result.
Wtf? When?
OH shit 2924 was 63% turnout and 2020 was 62%. I didn't know.
Yeah but how many time you had to vote during this last decade?
I wonder why there might be government backed initiatives to give more power to landlords
I have no idea what the situation is in Switzerland, but in Holland we had a pro-business, center right government for many years before their neglect of the common people caused so much rot that the far right has taken power and begun trying to smash up everything.
Anyway, their neo-liberal approach was that there must be a market solution to every problem. So, not enough affordable rental properties must mean that landlords don't want to rent their properties because renters have too good of a deal. So the only possible solution must be to deregulate the rental market as much as possible, including getting rid of renter protections.
Again, I have no idea about the motivations or history in Switzerland, just sharing a perspective from a lower altitude.
The words you used, in the order you used them, are not making sense to me. I'm only being partially sarcastic.
Let me try again.
People cannot find places to live.
The government decides that is because landlords cannot make enough profit.
So the government tries to remove protections for renters, to benefit renters.
Oh that's an easy one. It's because the state serves the interests of capital.
In switzerland the power is very close to the people. We're not a country controled by the elite in the shadows. Here the vote was very tight showing that there was genuine concern in the population about overly strong tennant protection.
I don't want to see trust eroded in a political system that represents the oppinion of the people well.
Our political system might work better than most western democracies, but your claim is categorically untrue.
The elite have strong power in the Swiss system
- Our largest party’s rise to power was because it’s leader was a far-right billionaire. Ever since, that party has been majority billionaire funded.
- Our national bank is 50% owned by private companies.
- Our cooperate lobbying laws are some of the laxest in the western world.
- Our representatives consistently prove to be more elite friendly than the average person, as shown again and again by referendum results vs their government votes.
I’m sick of the upper middle classes in Switzerland consistently saying the system is representative of the wider population.
It’s representative of their classes, not those of us who get by below the poverty wage, not those of us stuck in oppressive nursing home setups, not those of us who fall through the cracks of a system which is so focused on stability it often ignores needed reform. We have some of the worst disability rights laws in western europe. We only gave women the right to vote in the 70s (and in parts of the country, the 90s).
It takes a fundamentally fucked up country where in the same village of population 10,000, disabled people can starve to death whilst being unable to afford medical care, while a 5 minute drive away, there is the villa of a billionaire.
To add to that:
We have a militia system, which on first glance is a good thing. But then you realize that a plurality of parliamentarians are lawyers, business-people, advisors and other higher economic class individuals. Too many of them are on boards of directors or other high management positions in corporations. Compared to other western countries, it is more mixed, but clear conflicts of interests are present and it is still skewed towards the economic elite. The reasons for this are many, but among others voters getting such individuals in high positions can be paired with people in lower economic classes having less opportunities or motivation to run for office. Which is why local organizing is of utmost importance. You can see the effect in parliaments on a local level: They far more closely represent the population than on a state or federal level. Then there's party politics, but that'll get too long, soooo: Next point:
The media landscape: Your point about a billionaire having great impact on the electoral landscape extends to the media. You can count the owners of the local papers on one hand. Said billionaire owns some of them as well as an own TV channel if you can call it that. And there's a general animosity towards the SRG SSR with political and legislative attacks to weaken it.
Just to be fair, the claim that "our national bank is 50% owned by private companies" isn’t entirely accurate—it’s actually 45%. The Swiss National Bank is designed to be independent, and that’s why it’s not owned solely by the federal government, provincial governments, or private entities. This mix ensures that no single group has too much influence over its operations, and the structure has proven to work flawlessly for decades. Private shareholders have limited rights, dividends are capped, and monetary policy is fully independent.
The federal government has no ownership. It’s owned 55% split across the canton’s and 45% private shareholders.
In practice that means basically if 2 cantons and the private companies agree on something, and the 24 other cantons disagree, the private companies get there way.
It’s an institutionalisation of corporatism.
In practice it loses billions of CHF in public funds, on purpose, to make sure the CHF doesn’t become too strong, the CHF becoming stronger benefits the population, but hurts the companies because their prices become less competitive. It’s a system made to serve the companies as much as the people.
There are 100k shares and voting rights for private shareholders are capped at 100 shares. So there would have to be 450 private entities each owning 100 shares all agreeing to enact what you propose.
As of the end of 2023, private sector shareholders held 26,559 shares, accounting for 26.9% of the share capital. Of these, 15,116 were voting shares, representing 22.8% of the total voting rights.
Good for them