I don't think most people who really cared about Palestine voted Trump, and I also don't think they were anywhere close to deciding the election anyway.
What's the point of this smugposting exactly?
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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I don't really buy that the "leftists sank kamala" narrative is accurate. There's just two Americas and one is bigger than the other.
I feel like the leftists not voting for Kamala would be more likely to sit home and not vote at all. Which would line up pretty well with the shitty leftist turnout.
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Equating not voting for Harris with voting for Trump is ridiculous and propagandistic. It's straight up gaslighting.
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Indeed, it is-real.
We told you so.
Yeah Bud! Keep bravely patting yourself on the back for defending a losing campaign holding a losing position that is pro-genocide. Just keep punching left, I'm sure the fascists will call you one of the good ones
Punching “left” at Trump voters sounds fine to me.
Didn't vote for trump and neither did almost anyone else who was talking about the genocide, but sure. Keep pretending
Talking about the genocide sounds great. Pretty much everyone on Lemmy who's into world politics has been doing that for a while.
What are the second, third and fourth words of this particular meme you're responding to, please?
The second third and fourth words are where you make up a strawman to tilt at.
Oh yes supporting your claim that they supported Trump by quoting somebody who doesn't live in America. Definitely proving you didn't just make up an imaginary person to be mad at.
Oh so now you know what the second third and fourth words are, and are upset that I missed them lol.
I’m done now, I just wanted to point out what a horrifying catastrophe is going to happen for the Palestinians now. Yes, even worse than the genocide which Biden wasn’t doing enough to fight back against for your liking. Not that I am in any way happy about it.
I realized what they were, I just think you're wrong. The point of the meme is to tar people who opposed genocide as trump supporters. Remember how all you centrists kept saying, "No but they have to support genocide because the election" well you lost the election and enabled genocide, and now you're trying to pin the blame on people who were against the genocide, but we did vote for her. So fuck off
No. The point of the meme is to tar specifically the people who came up with a particular backwards way of looking at the genocide issue into a reason to enable turbo-genocide, which is now on its way.
If you’re not one of them, then it’s not aimed at you, but you seem pretty triggered by it.
Except you're in this same thread talking about people post election saying that the dems flubbed it and again implying we're bots or paid Russian shills, and talking about how you're looking forward to people taking issue with this.
Also using triggered as an insult, scratch a lib as they say.
I never implied that you were either Russian or a bot. I definitely implied that there are some of those on Lemmy, elsewhere in my comments, I don't think that's in doubt though.
Now that I looked in your history, though, you did want to talk about Ukrainian war crimes, and you measured distance to your bus stop in kilometers. I wonder what percentage of American voters like you on Lemmy do both of those things.
https://lemm.ee/comment/15053777
https://lemm.ee/comment/15030623
That's from looking at 2 pages of history, maybe there's more further back.
Homie I spent like half an hour converting those from miles because the OP used Kilometers. Sorry for being a considerate poster. Go on and dig a little further, how many people do you think post this much about Michigan from Europe? Do you think maybe I'm this mad about Israel because I live and work among Palestinian immigrants? Do you think my proximity to Dearborn might have something to do with that?
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I have the feeling that since the vote is over, a lot fewer people are here to defend their "ron't vote for harris because palestine" stance. Like something was switched off...
I'm still here. Harris fucked up on Palestine. Biden fucked up on Palestine. It just doesn't need to be repeated on and on and on again - there is no new information, only people who think "vote for a candidate that supports genocide" is the correct thing to do. And that "Trump worse" is somehow a gotcha, when there isn't any difference - the genocide has been happening and has been killing Palestinians for a year when democrats were in charge.
What short memories people have. It's been decades. Since Clinton and before. It spiked in the last year. And will spike even harder now that so many actively voted for fascism like in 1980. Or railed against the achievable (you) in pursuit of unobtainable perfection. Only to predictably, as it always has been. Achieve the worst possible outcome. But denying self responsibility. That part is always present too. Otherwise people would have to learn.
Yes, I know it's been decades. We are talking about this election and what's been happening "right now". And why democrats lost it now.
The difference is very simple. A lot of people don't give a shit about Palestine, but act as if they do. They clutch their pearls when you point it out. They say things like you do, where "stop the genocide" is somehow "unobtainable perfection". Like oopsie, guess we will never change it, it's completely impossible to not be funding genocide!
Fuck that and fuck everyone who thinks that. You aren't the good guys for voting Harris, and for voting for the genocide. You aren't the good guys for voting for Trump and for voting for the genocide.
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Not actively abetting a genocide is unobtainable perfection? How do you people look at yourselves in the mirror?
Honestly I have no idea. It's comic book cartoonish evil, plain to see. And yet, seems like it's impossible for them to get it through their heads - votes for democrats were votes for murders to continue. Status quo isn't great when it is "let's kill all Palestinians" already. It's not "perfection". A candidate supporting it is "deplorable", not "imperfect".
What part of there's no such thing as Palestinians don't you get?
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I notice that some of them have pivoted to “this was completely the fault of the Democrats, the voters are blameless” messaging, which this would fall under.
Messages of urgent concern about what we need to do for the Palestinians have completely evaporated though, yes. It turns out that it began and ended with not voting for the Democrats, and now there’s nothing particular they want to say about Palestine. Good thing that was all we needed to do, huh? We really squeaked one out there, I guess, with our victory.
No. I don't know why you aren't seeing them but they are very much still there. This is just yet another effort to blame the people instead of the party that couldn't get people to vote for it. Which is their entire job.
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I remember in the weeks following the announcement that Biden would step down and endorse Harris people dug into her voting record and revealed that she was one of the furthest left-leaning members of the Senate, up there with Sanders and Warren.
Now that she's lost the election all of a sudden so-called "progressives" are claiming she lost because she was basically a Republican.
The GOP's strategy was clearly to promote voter apathy and drive down turnout for people more likely to vote Harris, and it worked. Trump finally won the popular vote- and he did so with about 6 million fewer votes than what Biden got in 2020.
Far too many progressive, and maybe even moderate Dems and independents, really believed all the nonsense. "Both sides are the same", "you're vote doesn't matter", "there's no way Trump can win", "Bidenomics is totally what caused the global inflation and we are just going to ignore that post-pandemic inflation in the US was the lowest of any developed economy", "she's a cop", etc. Heck, maybe there is even some misogynist or racism on the left that may have hurt Harris. And now instead of just trying to dig out way out of decades of neoliberalism we're just escalating to fascism.
I blame everyone. The GOP and Trump of course. The billionaires (the loud ones like Musk and Bezos, but also the quieter ones like Thiel and the Walton family). Russia of course. The spineless politicians and government officials who refused to put Trump behind bars. The DNC for the shenanigans they've been pulling with primaries for the past several elections and for planning to run a walking corpse in 2024 instead of setting up a real successor to Biden. All of the people who voted for Trump and the other Republicans. All of the left-leaning folk who didn't turn out for Harris. The decades of the GOP undermining democracy (really starting with pardoning Nixon, the whole Regan administration, the hanging chads in 2000, Mitch McConnell taking over the courts, etc).
The only comfort I have is that I know I did my part and voted.
She was one of the furthest left Senators. Then she ran to the right as hard as possible during her short campaign. She took progressives and leftists for granted and lost.
I keep seeing that claimed everywhere. I'll admit that I make an effort NOT to consume political ads (or ads in general really) but I don't remember anything right-leaning from Harris outside of supporting the status quo for Israel and Palestine.
I did hear ads on the radio in stores supporting making billionaires pay their fair share and lowering taxes for the working class. Ads attacking Trump for giving tax breaks to billionaires and wanting to cut Medicare and social security benefits. Ads supporting pro-choice and attacking Republicans for wanting to ban abortion. It's possible that there were ads for different demographics, but the same radio station was also airing right-wing ads with incredible amounts of transphobia- dead naming and misgendering individuals and claiming they were criminals coming for your children.
It's entirely possible I missed something because there's just way too much election content for one person to read, but I really have no clue where the narrative of the right turn is coming from.
She also sought endorsements from Republicans who supported George Bush lying to the US to get 4,000 Americans killed. She tied the party line on a victorious economy while people are still struggling. And no a tax break isn't going to make my rent go down or groceries cost less.
I haven't seen any data on it yet. But I also would not be surprised to find out people believe she doesn't matter for abortion because of state protections being enacted.
At the end of the day the message was she wouldn't do more than inconvenience the wealthy, she wouldn't work on the cost of living crisis, she likes the Republicans, wants to go hard-line on immigration, and is staunchly pro Israel.
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Oh, I think you know where the narrative of the right turn is coming from.
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The truth was never part of the issue. They often had contradictory messaging depending on the audience.
- Kamala betrayed Israel because she's sympathetic to Palestinian terrorists / Kamala loves genocide
- Kamala's a communist / all the Democrats are corrupt and in bed with the corporations
- Kamala is for open borders and evil immigrants / Kamala is crueler than Trump on immigration
Most of it was actually engineered for Biden and based on what he did in office, to the extent that it was even based on anything, and then they just did a search-and-replace to change it to Kamala. It makes no sense, but the effectiveness is not really based on it making sense, just on insistent constant repetition and on it lining up with the reader's general vulnerabilities in terms of what tends to resonate with them. Lemmy gets the second half of each of my examples, but the first half also got plenty of play and had plenty of effectiveness with other audiences.
I did see recently some ads from right-wing PAC's that were shown in different swing states- some portraying Harris as an enemy of Israel in predominantly Jewish areas (I know Judaism =/= Zionism but if you were trying to direct ads to Zionists that's probably the closest you can get) and others portraying Harris as a genocidal supporter of Israel in areas with higher Palestinian populations.
Something that always surprises me is just how effective such dumb advertising is to the average person. I'm not even claiming to be some superhuman immune to propaganda, but political ads always seem particularly low-effort yet seem to control the outcomes of elections.
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It was never about palestine in the sense there was absolutely nothing the biden administration could have done that they would consider good enough. Like so often they compare actions not with historical norms and if its an improvement but by a fantasy ideal thats just not going to happen. End result is trump and historical norms moving right.
Biden could have stopped illegally funding a genocide. Harris could have uttered the words "Leahy Law" at any time up to about 2 weeks before the election. (After which point large policy changes just seem desperate and in bad faith)
So yeah there is something they could have done. It's not like the pro Israel lobby rewarded her in PA.
Ah yes, picking a massive fight with the person who's actually in charge of foreign policy right now, failing to produce any meaningful change in policy because she's not yet in charge, putting the whole Gaza issue heavily in the news during the campaign, and framed in a particular way which would have been guaranteed to crater support from both the pro-Israel people and the pro-Palestine people, because of the type of infighting that would have developed as various Democrats and supporters felt the need to try to placate supporters of one side or another.
It's genius. That would have been a perfect campaign strategy for Kamala Harris. I only can't understand how I didn't see it until you just now brought it up.
She's campaigning. It's literally her job to put her proposed policies out there. If she holds back for fear of offending her boss then she didn't want the job.
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Yeah. If Biden had been doing perfect on Palestine, they'd have been consistently freaking out about some other thing he did to supposedly betray the left, fellow leftists.
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I was eagerly looking forward to people coming into the comments saying how all of us don’t understand, Kamala was an unprecedented villain because she was adjacent to a whole different person who was all squeamish about putting the brakes on the genocide he didn’t want, refusing to vote for her made PERFECT sense even now in the grisly light of hindsight, and installing someone instead who wants more genocide and a whole lot more is totally exactly what the Palestinians would have wanted.
Come on guys, there’s only one so far. Surely we can muster up more than that.
If that person is your boss and you're trying to win a popularity contest then meaningfully diverging from their messaging is a good thing. Instead she mirrored his messaging. She could have been speaking in good faith, but nobody believed her because of her boss' bad faith.
Lol the downvotes? Let's see, the full context here...
“Basically, there really is no such thing as — I need to be careful about saying this, because people will really get upset — there’s really no such thing as a Palestinian,” Huckabee said at a 2008 campaign stop in Massachusetts while speaking to two Orthodox Jewish men. “There’s not.”
In response to a question from one of the men about the possibility of a Palestinian state existing outside of Israel, Huckabee said he believed this was the preferable option.
“You have Arabs and Persians,” Huckabee continued at the 2008 appearance. “And there’s such complexity in that. But there’s really no such thing [as a Palestinian state]. That’s been a political tool to try and force land away from Israel.”
You all really think there were a significant amount of people who voted trump because Biden and Kamala also support genocide?
That's wild...
What happened is some people couldn't compromise their own morals to vote for either, and Republicans don't have morals so that compromise was easy for them.
You can get mad at them all you want, but this isn't the first time this has happened, look at virtually any presidential election in modern history a republican can win, and it's because the Dems went to far right and left their base behind.
We've been doing it for decades, and when a moderate wins it's by the skin of their teeth with large amounts of the people voting for them openly saying they won't make a good president but the only other option is a Republican.
We know the current strategy doesn't work.
We know that even when it does, things just temporarily stop getting worse, they don't get substantially better.
So can someone please explain to be the logic of doubling down on moving to the right every election?
Why do you think it will magically start working?
Why not do what we did in 08 and run a young charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign and just fucking dominate an election again leading to the House/Senate all my with gains in red state governments?
How many times does neo liberalism have to result in fascism before the party stops shoving it down our throatsm
When leftists get money, and stay leftists when they do.