At first, i agreed with the explanations based on the lack of cohesion of the democratic party, and the influence of Palestine, on the votes :
With most votes counted, the 2024 election elected D.Trump with ~73M votes vs. ~68M for K.Harris, compared to 2020 when D.Trump was rejected despite having the same numbers(, 74.2M,) and J.Biden was elected with 81.3M votes.
Furthermore, D.Trump would have received less votes without influent people like Robert Kennedy Jr. on his side, who still received votes apparently.
However, third parties like the libertarian party or the Green party received much more votes in 2016 than in 2024(, and the republican&democratic parties much less). Having gained 1M votes at most wouldn't have that much of an impact.
(I've also sometimes heard(, mostly twitter, but here's msnbc,) that the 2.5M muslim-americans voted D.Trump in opposition but that's not supported(source), even if J.Stein should have obtained much more if these surveys were trustworthy).
While i can't deny the influence of many pro-Palestine actors, i can't really prove it by the numbers either, and some deny its importance. Also, the high voter turnout doesn't favor the alternative of a boycott.
I only took a superficial look, so i don't doubt that there're many americans here who could easily correct my mistakes if they want to
this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2024
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People didn't feel like voting for Kamala, so instead of voting for Trump they stayed home.
Ideally, stats by categories would be more useful to draw a conclusion, but at first sight it doesn't seem so though :
It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted. Trump is gonna end up with some 73.000.000 votes, while Kamala has 68.000.000 right now, Biden received 81.200.000 in 2020. That's 14 million fewer votes overall than in 2020. That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn't show up.
It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted
We may have understood it the same way, yet just to be sure : The turnout is counted normally, except for states where less than 97% of the votes are counted, in which case the reported turnout has been replaced by the expected turnout.
That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn’t show up
You're right, if they didn't voted for third parties, if the votes are mostly counted, if the voter turnout is the same, and if republicans didn't received more votes than in 2020, then where did these 14M votes went ?
Thanks for confirming that i'm missing something, don't know if you or someone here have the explanation.
Well, they haven't counted all the votes yet, but it seems that 158.000.000 total votes were cast according to an analyst from UFL, who gets info from the bureau of elections or whatever. If Trump has 73M and Kamala has 68M votes, some 2.4M have voted third party. I guess that means there are still some 14.5 million votes to be counted.
Which seems like a lot, doesn't it? I don't know what's going on, perhaps we're making some error somewhere.
And if they don't have the same source, it confirms the WaPo's 65% with its 64.52%(, in the VEP_TURNOUT_RATE column)
we’re making some error somewhere
Yeah, you're right, it's too obvious, anyone can do 72.6M+68M+2.2M and easily see that it's only ~143M out of 158.5, so we're indeed making an obvious mistake somewhere. They're probably simply not counted yet, as you said(, California is slow here).
"RESUME THE COUNT!" - blue MAGA probably
If they were votes for third parties, then they would have shown up by now.
I've done what I feel is a pretty good job ignoring US election (canadian here), but the liberal head loss over this I sadly cannot ignore. Otherwise reasonable people acting as if the world has ended when this man has already been president ? Some of the same people who agreed with me that KKKamala is not in any capacity a "harm reduction" vote acting as if martial law has just been declared or some shit ? Maybe I'm just the disagreeable asshole but I just find this behavior sad.
Obviously fuck Trump should go without saying how pathetically shitty that dude is but I mean come on. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered and terminally wounded under the democrats, not trump. Roe v Wade was overturned under the democrats, not Trump. We have witnessed one of the most acute transfers of wealth to the ultra rich under the dems, not the republicans. The war in the Ukraine started and was goaded on under Biden's admin, not Trump.
I'm not trying to say in any sense that things will get a single iota better with republicans in office but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing the reactions online and from people I would consider to be rational individuals. They might even be right that these things will get worse under another Trump admin more quickly or in different ways than if Kamala won, but still I find the reaction to it ridiculous.
Not that any american needs to or should care about my opinion considering I'm relatively removed from the situation but like, am I being unempathetic or unreasonable ?
I don't find your view unreasonable at all. Pro-Democrat people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Republican and Pro-Republican people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Democrat.
The really substantial global events such as the Zionist Genocide against the Gaza Strip and the Russia-Ukraine war are more impactful than all the bickering between the 2 parties in the USA. State agencies make plans years in advance before carrying them out so that they can dedicate state resources towards those plans. If there were to be a candidate that caused major disruption to those plans then all efforts would be made to undermine their chance of coming to power.
There's only a change in rhetoric and framing of major events depending on who wins the election. I don't live in the USA either but I remember feeling conflicted about how I would have voted were I to have lived there in 2020. Trump is outwardly a racist person who uses similar propaganda tactics as Hitler IMO. He feeds off of people's anger, scapegoats minorities, creates a sense of 'community' among his supporters to make them feel emotionally invested in supporting him, uses ingroup/outgroup politics more heavily, and creates catchy labels to attack his enemies "sleepy Joe", "crooked Hillary" etc.
Whereas Kamala Harris and Democrats in general (like Obama) are just good at honing in on the most diplomatic language possible to invoke apathy towards all injustices perpetrated by the US government, its allies and corporations. And to be honest, with me I admit that it kind of works. I remember feeling much more passionate about awful shit in the USA when Trump was president compared to Biden. I can't even imagine the rage I would have felt had Donald Trump justified the bombing of Al-Ahli Hospital by Israel compared to Biden doing the exact same thing.
Which of the two is worse is impossible for me to say, and all Dems who admonish people for voting for Jill Stein and opposing Genocide, blaming them for some imaginary people bleeding out are total clowns. The election ended up being about whether you identify more with Elon Musk and Joe Rogan or with Beyoncé. It's ok if you don't fall into either camp.
Yeah I'm in a similar space as a Canadian. Stayed relatively offline until a couple hours ago and now it's official lol. I empathize with your growing sense of detachment from American politics and what helped me come to grips with that is recently is learning that America has the most frequent elections of any country in the whole world. It's baked into their culture. They go through this cycle every 4 years like clockwork, as their constitution mandates.
The reactions both before and after the 2016 one were EXACTLY like this. Same talking points, same willful ignorance of all the horrible bullshit the incumbent dem admin did like Biden blowing up Nordstream, helping complete the border wall, deliberately stalling/defusing 1/6 investigations, aiding and abetting the Palestinian genocide, stoking the Ukraine war, shrugging at all the SCOTUS rulings rather than just packing it like the GOP did...
It's just going to be so painful and cringe to see all their fantasies about muh concentration camps and cancelled elections not come true and see them do all of this AGAIN in 2028, probably with fucking Kumla again.
I guess to get to your concern, if you're being unempathetic than I definitely am too for whatever that is worth. I used to be willing to live and let live for americans who voted for whomever because I didn't see meaningful difference and because I thought they were simply misled, but after being personally insulted and attacked and sneered at by Americans who tell you to butt out as a non-American when you stop toeing the DNC line, I kind of just said fuck 'em. I think they deliberately make the choice of "genocide over there vs over here" and dress it up with pride stickers and memes and twitter posts and Parks & Rec screenshots to make themselves feel better about only giving a shit about American lives. I'm just emotionally divesting from American politics and focusing on things that can actually help prepare me. It helps to remember that they do this every 2 goddamn years and it's not the end of the world.
I had the same feeling. I am not going to bat for Trump now or even, man is a piece of shit, but he's still a known quantity. They have had a Trump presidency before. It sucked sure, but I don't know why people are acting like he is going to declare himself emperor day 1. He has been in office, we know exactly the type of policies he would be pursuing. A couple of which I could honestly see as being good things, albeit for the wrong reasons (like if Trump actually withdrew the US from NATO, not that I expect that to ever happen).
Yet I see people seriously believing that he is going to round up all dissenters day 1 and declare martial law. ICE has been doing that already, for both flavours of administration.
This shit was so predictable lmao at least the victory lap will be less violent than the "stolen election" protests, America now has a more fitting face
Mood around my campus was pretty dead today. I voted for big K but I am so incredibly disappointed by how this turned out. Also, she and Biden have apparently disappeared. She never even saw the crowd after the results were called.
who’s big K?
Kamala
She is talking now, apparently.
Idk why I do it but I'm watching lib Dutch talk shows and of course they are about the elections today and it's expectedly insufferable
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