this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (22 children)

This is a clean example of an ignoratio elenchi fallacy.

Statement B attempts to use Statement A to make an unrelated point that isn't necessarily untrue, but it is still unrelated.

This could be done with any combination of...

"Under capitalism, is..."
"Under , science is..."

They would all result in a statement that supports Speaker B, but is no longer relevant to what Speaker A stated, as the topic has changed. In this case, from science to capitalism.

I.e. It's an anti-capitalism meme attempting to use science to appeal to a broader audience through relevance fallacy. Both statements may be true, but do not belong in the same picture.

Unless, of course, "that's the joke" and I'm just that dumb.

Edit: I'm not a supporter of capitalism. But I am a supporter of science—haha, like it needs me to exist—and this is an interesting example of social science. It seems personal opinion is paramount to some individuals rather than unbiased assessment of the statement as a whole. Call me boring and autistic, but that's what science be and anything else isn't science, it's just personal opinion, belief, theory, etc.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Wow thanks! I’ve seen other instances of this fallacy but never knew its name (nor recognized that it is a common fallacy form).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (4 children)

You're dead on. Science is a process. I can science the shit out of baking soda and vinegar to make a volcano, and I don't need government funding to do it. What you science is effected by capitalism, but capitalism is just a scare word. No matter what you want to do, if it requires a significant amount of power or work to create your materials, a cost is accrued somewhere, and someone has to pay it, whether it costs dollars or beaver pelts.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (3 children)

And under socialism in the 20th century, science was an institution that only funds research that advances whatever narrative the hermetic powers-that-be decided to push and strengthen their grip on power, their obsession with secretiveness and projecting an image of infallibility.

Take the Soviet Union.
T.D. Lysenko and his crackpot food engineering ideas is one such glaring example. But boy oh boy could he talk a "toe the party line" game and suck up to Stalin.
Or how about how the kremlin rendered nearly one quarter of Kazakhstan uninhabitable due to their relentless nuclear testing. And they nearly did that for all of western Europe with Chernobyl.

In the name of workers and science, we shall poison your land. Science for the workers' paradise, rejoice, comrades!

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

Nihilism is fun! Science as a framework for truth seeking, and big S Science are functionally different things. Nobody is making the argument that Science is free from political or economic bias, or even that empiricism is the sole arbiter of truth. Literally just finish reading Kant, I'll wait.

On the other hand, you can look at the world and very plainly see that science... does things. It discovers truth with a far better track record than every other imperfect epistemology. But sure, capitalism bad. Twitter man cringe. And the internet is just like, an opinion, or something.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This statement is ~~on the verge of being~~ a strawman argument. The first compares science to other systems of knowledge, while the second criticizes the subjects of scientific study under a capitalist influence.

These two statements do not refer to the same thing in context.

Edit: clarity

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

Science is the process of getting things a little less wrong.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

Science is a method of empiricism and inductive logic.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

science is science. it can be (sometimes necessarily) prioritized via societal influence, culture and monetary means.

socialist countries have different types scientific spend but I don't see femboys taking things in the ass for them I guess.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look, the only thing in the world which hasn't been corrupted by capitalism is OP's brain, which happens to be in a jar, on a shelf, owned by an evil demon, who lives in a hole at the bottom of the sea. Just be thankful that the capitalists have not figured out how to harness this phenomenological power yet.

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[–] [email protected] 133 points 1 day ago (3 children)

True but people also use this as an excuse to dismiss any research they disagree with which is idiotic.

Most research is legit. It just might not be interpreted correctly, or it might not be the whole picture. But it shouldn’t be ignored because you don’t like it.

People are especially prone to this with Econ research in my experience.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The entire thing is an edgy strawman. Honest practitioners obviously take seriously the need to understand and articulate the limits of empiricism, and are hostile towards those who abuse the public trust placed in scientific authority. It would honestlt be great if we could do the same with our critiques of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Isn't there a replication crisis. I am not sure you can really claim "most" research is legit.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I wouldn't call it a broad crisis, and it isn't universal. More theoretical sciences or social sciences are more prone to it because the experiments are more expensive and you can't really control the environment the way you can with e.g. mice or specific chemicals. But most biology, chemistry, etc that isn't bleeding edge or incredibly niche will be validated dozens to hundreds of times as people build on the work and true retractions are rare

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

For sure, but it’s important to keep in mind in fields with large financial interests.

Medicine especially. Most studies claiming Cealiac disease (gluten allergy) was not real before it was conclusively proven to be legitimate were funded by bread companies. You won’t believe the number of studies funded by insurance companies trying to show that certain diseases aren’t really disabling, (even though they really are).

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And sugar probably kills as many people as smoking, but... yup.

Then again, we all are okay with killing children too, so long as it is with a gun and unwillingly rather than safely in a doctor's office and medically necessary or at least expedient.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

That seems like a crazy low estimate for deaths caused by sugar...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

If you’d like to read into this I recommend these books.

1. “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions” by Thomas S. Kuhn

2. “Science as Social Knowledge” by Helen Longino

3. “The Politics of Science” by David Politzer

4. “The Science Industry” by Philip Mirowski

5. “The Commodification of Science: A Critical Perspective” by various authors

An example of why this matters would be that research claiming ME was psychological was heavily funded, by both governments and insurance companies because it meant that they didn’t have to spend money on people disabled with ME. No effort was made to look at possible biological causes. Only a couple decades later, we now know it is a neuroimmune disease. But since insurers and government don’t benefit from that fact, it took decades to show and disprove the mountain of research claiming it is psychological. This meant thousands of people died from the disease or were in severe poverty.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (7 children)

You forgot Foucault's Power/Knowledge.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 day ago

I meant for the femboy getting pounded in the bottom photo

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