The US has two parties: center-right and far right.
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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The Left begins with anti-capitalism. If you aren't against capitalism, you aren't left.
Libs are seething at this absolute correct take. If you're pro free market, you're a liberal and thats as 'left' as you'll ever be.
Libs are seething, period.
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I don't understand how the Democrats in USA can be considered left-wing. Sure, they are more left than the Republicans, but in my eyes they certainly not left-wing.
I don’t know what country you are from or how your voting system works. But I will guess that your country has many parties and after the election, a governing coalition is formed.
In the US voting system, similar parties get punished by stealing votes from each other. So, in effect, we have to form our coalitions before the election and choose the single candidate that will stand for all of us. So, you can think of the Democratic Party as the Democratic Coalition, made up of some truly left-wing factions, as well as some not very left-wing or even centrist factions, and so our candidate will be much more watered down than what you’d see in a different system.
There are also Right-wing factions in the "Democratic coalition" you mention like The Cheney's.
I am from Sweden. You are correct that my country has many different parties that together form a governing coalition.
Thank you for making it a bit clearer to me! I appreciate it.
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You said it yourself, they are less far-right than Republicans, so Liberals get to pretend they are punks and rebels despite supporting the status quo.
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when they say they're left, but then they're authoritarian
Marx and Engels were called "authoritarian" so frequently by their contemporaries that Engels wrote On Authority. What's considered "authoritarian" is a moving target, an arbitrary line in the sand just for people who succeed in revolution, or at least in throwing off western Imperialist powers.
If your argument is that Marxism isn't Leftist then that's hilarious
my argument isn't that marx isn't left (especially since I've read his later works), nor that auth-left isn't left... just that I'm an anti authotitarian leftist
Gotcha, you're just anti-Marxist then. Can't say I agree with that, but that's less nonsensical than saying Marx isn't left.
I don't belive marx to be really auth, since he was striving for a stateless society, I just disagree with him on how we get there
so I'm not exactly an anti marxist, but neither a marxist
What Marx calls the "State" and what Anarchists call the "State" are different concepts, ergo what Marx calls "Stateless" would still have hierarchy, and what Anarchists call "Stateless" would still have implementations of class oppression. Marxists and Anarchists do not want the "same thing."
If we take your statement that your only major aggreement with Marx is a "Stateless" society, but you're working off the Anarchist definition of the State, then you are necessarily anti-Marxist. I'd rather you say that openly than try to twist Marxism despite being an Anarchist, so I hope it's just a misunderstanding on your part.
well, then I'm an "anti-marxist" I wouldn't really like to put it that way tho, since I agree with him on a lot of things
also sry for twisting things, it's been a long time since I read marx
That's fine, I would just focus more on your "pro-Anarchist" identity than your "anti-'authoritarian'" side. You can be whatever you want to be, your political views are your own.
also sry for twisting things, it's been a long time since I read marx
It wasn't a moral judgement! Just wanted to clear up a clear misconception. I obviously recommend reading more Marx. What do you agree with about Marx?
> What do you agree with about Marx?
just off my head:
- the labor theory of value
- surplus value
- freedom
- that the means of production should be owned by the community
- democracy (from what I remember he was kinda democtratic, please correct me)
The LTV is based on Materialism, so I'd read up more on that. Same with Surplus Value.
Freedom is one that is a bit different from Anarchists. Marxists believe that the individual is free when the community is free, Anarchists tend to believe the Community is free when the individual is free.
As for "communally owned," there's an important nuance. Marxists are in favor of public ownership and central planning, Anarchists are in favor of communal ownership and mutual aid. Different systems entirely.
Democracy is a bit vague. All Marxists are democratic, the structure of the democracy is different, and not direct democracy like most Anarchist systems.
thx for refreshing my memory, I should totally read it again, it's been almost 20 years now
Let me know if you want any recommendations!
thought I'll read the Kapital again, since I appear to have forgotten pretty much anything from it
Capital is a good choice, but you'll get more bang for your time with Socialism: Utopian and Scientific IMO.
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Authoritarian left is a thing...
ik, it's just that I'm anarchist left
Won’t even draw a hard line at genocide
It sucks. Liberals will be blaming Arab Americans going to Jill Stein if Harris loses, rather than Harris and Biden, just you wait.