this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2024
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I'm going to move away from lastpass because the user experience is pretty fucking shit. I was going to look at 1pass as I use it a lot at work and so know it. However I have heard a lot of praise for BitWarden and VaultWarden on here and so probably going to try them out first.

My questions are to those of you who self-host, firstly: why?

And how do you mitigate the risk of your internet going down at home and blocking your access while away?

BitWarden's paid tier is only $10 a year which I'm happy to pay to support a decent service, but im curious about the benefits of the above. I already run syncthing on a pi so adding a password manager wouldn't need any additional hardware.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

If you self host bitwarden/vaultwarden, each client stores an encrypted copy of the database, so even if your server was completely destroyed, you'd still have access to all the accounts you're saving in it.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago

I use KeePassXC its free works on what I use. The encrypted list of passwords is synced with my phone twice a day with Syncthing. Chrome had a fit with the android app to I switched to Firefox after. I selfhost it because it's free and I know enough to troubleshoot any problems.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I use a KeePassXC database on a syncthing share and haven't had any issues. You get synchronization and offline access, and even if there are sync conflicts, the app can merge the two files.

One benefit to hosted password vaults over files is that they can use 2FA - you can't exactly do TOTP with a static file.

(As an aside, I wish more "self hosted" apps were instead "local file and sync friendly" apps instead, exactly because of offline access)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

You can do 2FA with Keepass, just not TOTP. Add a key file or a hardware key on top of your master password and you pass "something that you have and something that you know" test

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It can generate TOTP codes, but I'm saying that the vault itself can't be secured with TOTP.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Then the difference is really that someone else is handing the security, right? At the end of the day, there's an encrypted file somewhere, and a TOTP only protects a particular connection by network.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sure, but there's a big difference between a vault copied and synced on all of my mobile devices that I could easily lose versus only on a server behind locked doors.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Firefox has a built in password manager, it is stored on each machine you sync. But to anwer your question any cloud stored data is vulnerable, so be sure your password manager supports other verification measures such as Yubikey as another factor of authentication

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Regarding benefits for the paid tier (which I use as a sort of donation):

  1. it's literally on their page: https://bitwarden.com/help/password-manager-plans/#compare-personal-plans
  2. What I actually use: A bit of the encrypted upload, some 2FA generators for unimportant services (I prefer using another 2FA app with encrypted automated backups. Helps keeping things separate)

Regarding self-hosting:
I decided against it.

  1. Too much important stuff in there (+400 accounts)
  2. Too much stuff in there I would need to back up and keep safe. Not in the mood.
  3. Not enough experience with hosting a database. If it would go belly-up I had no one except the internet to ask and figure it out myself. At best some selfhost forum/community.
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I switched from Lastpass to 1Pass and it was pretty miserable. I then swtiched to Bitwarden. It's not perfect, but it's better than LP and 1Pass.

The reason you'd want to self-host is so that nobody has access to your data but you. "The cloud" is just someone elses computer"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Im curious what makes it better than 1pass? Ive used a few of these, and my experience with 1pass was probably the best. Well, except for the price..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Bitwarden does external audits with reports and stores in zero knowledge storage.
Loose your master password and you are fucked. They can't restore it even if you pay them a million €

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That was basically the same claim LP made. Even if true, if you have a bad master password, you can be compromised. While yes, that's on you, your data is a high priority target in a centralized password store... if you host it yourself, someone would first have to know you had that data to even target you for that. Much less exposure hosting it yourself. The convenience factor and potentially less security than a company hosting passwords have, so it's kind of a six of one, half dozen of the other.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Fair points.
Considering bitwarden is zero knowledge the data in itself is for now 'safe' enough to me.
Though I could be subject to IP/vulnerability scans on my home connection or accidentaly forwarding stuff that puts the security at risk and getting compromised (Seriously...The stuff I could connect and control via VNC I found on shodan was very creepy and frightening).
Nah mate. Plus maintaining the data I already have is enough for me. Bitwarden would be way too much. But maybe in the future once I figure Linux and docker more out :)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If a FOSS project provides easy self hosting but also a paid hosting I usually go for that to support the project and gain something at the same time. Not only for password managers but any service.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

I selfhost vault warden, and in all honesty, it's just painless. I do reverse proxy it, but you could also just setup wireguard or Tailscale at home and keep it even more secure that way.

The reason I chose to selfhost is because I want to be in as much control as possible of my data. I chose Vault warden because it's fully featured and super easy to deploy the server, ridiculously so.

Now,if anyone was to ask me if they should selfhost Bitwarden or just use their hosted service, I'd suggest to take the second option, for 2 reasons:

1.- it's even easier and just works 2.- if you choose the paid tier it has some nice features and you help the project stay alive

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Keepass hosted on my Nextcloud server. You can have the database synced to however many devices you want, and each one will always have a local copy of the latest version. You can use whatever sync solution you want though: syncthing, Dropbox, google drive etc. I suggest using diceware to generate a strong master passphrase for the database :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I do exactly this, and use Keepass2Android on my phone and have nextcloud-KeeWeb installed.

Tangentally related - For anyone looking to take over a project, KeeWeb is looking for a new maintainer!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Yeah. I use KeepassXC on my computers and KeepassDX on my phone. All synced with syncthing and it works great.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Bitwarden also syncs a local copy to every device it connects to.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

This is the way. It's also one of the simplest self-hosted setups you can have. Highly recommend it.

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