I will take OpenRC to my grave
this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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I'm more of a runit guy, but I started using Alpine recently, and I have to say, openrc is also pretty nice!
Unit files, sockets and systemctl
Stop it Patrick, you're scaring him!
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cool
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"I hate systemd, it's bloated and overengineered" people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.
“I hate systemd, it’s bloated and overengineered”
And built poorly by people who don't work well with others and then payola'ed onto the world.
people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.
Fucking UNIX is shell scripts and cron jobs, skippy. Add xinetd and you're done.
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huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.
That's bloat. I start all my services manually according to my needs. Why start cupsd BEFORE I need to print anything?
thats what systemd sockets are here for
or inetd!
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The systemd debate is basically dead. There are very few against it, but many accept it by now. Just avoid phoronix forum and some other places.
The systemd debate is basically dead.
Not until it isn't shite.
"Just avoid places that sysadmins and security guys frequent and get your opinions on systemd from memes and people running arch on home machine". Great plan.
Systemd is absolute and utter shit, especially from security perspective.
Noone was asking security guys but package maintainers.
My favorite systemd thing is booting up a box with 6 NICs where only 1 was configured during the initial setup. Second favorite is betting on whether it will hang on reboot/shutdown.
Great tool, 10/10.
I've gotten into quite a lot of systemd-related flame wars so far, and what strikes me is that I haven't heard a single reason why systemd is good and should be used in favor of openrc/sysvinit/whatever. The only arguments I hear in favor of systemd, even from the its diehard defenders, are justifications why it's not that bad. Not once have I heard someone advocate for systemd with reasoning that goes likes "Systemd is superior to legacy init systems because you can do X much easier" or "systemd is more secure because it's resistant against Y attack vector". It's always "Linus says it's allright" or "binary logfiles aren't a problem, you can just get them from journald instead of reading the file", or "everyone already uses it".
When it comes to online discourse, systemd doesn't have advocates, it has apologists.
Well, I'll tell you that I prefer systemd because I can comprehend its declarative unit files and dependency-based system a lot better than the shell script DSLs and runlevels that I've had to mess with in other init systems. systemctl status has a quite nice output that can be really handy when debugging units. I like being able to pull up logs for just about any service on my system with a simple journalctl command instead of researching where the log file is.
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“Just avoid places that sysadmins and security guys frequent and get your opinions on systemd from memes and people running arch on home machine”. Great plan.
So salty. Also twisting the things I said. I for sure like to visit phoronix, but I avoid the phoronix forum and advice was to avoid the forum.
Noone was asking security guys but package maintainers.
citation needed.
Keep using Devuan if it makes you happy.
Not really interested in debating with average "I run arch btw" user. We are not in the same universe, things I have to audit and maintain are not in the same universe with things you do, so having such a smart advice coming from you is not a surprise at all. I could, after all, just roll out my own distro if I am not happy, amirite?
I run systemd machines because I don't have a choice. It doesn't make it any less of a shit. Simple as that.
But hey, tell me some more about systemd, I am really new to all this 🤔
Out of curiosity, why exactly do you not have a choice in not running systemd? Is it company policy / are they clients' machines?
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My favorite was when the behavior of a USB drive in /etc/fstab went from "hmm it's not plugged in at boot, I'll let the user know" to "not plugged in? Abort! Abort! We can't boot!"
This change over previous init behavior was especially fun on headless machines...
You could just use systemd mounts like a normal person. Fstab is for critical partitions
Fstab is for critical partitions
Hush everyone, don't tell this guy about noauto, it'll burst his bubble
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Although there is an argument for not using it on (very) old systems
The systemd debate is basically dead.
But the Super Nintendo vs. Sega Genesis/Megadrive debate rages on.
Both have great games.
Mega Drive is clearly better because that's the one I had as a child.
I had neither...
Skill issue. Try the following:
- be born into a different family that did have a Mega Drive
- time travel back in time and give yourself a Mega Drive
- travel to an alternate universe (or as I like to call it, time travel sideways) where Mega Drives are standard issue at birth
Hope this helps. Git gud.
Thanks for the troubleshooting, I will consider those steps.
Anytime I see a Phoronix article (very loosely) about systemd or Wayland I fill my insults bingo card.
What's wrong with Wayland? I get the hate for systemd, even though I love it dearly, but I get the hate. But what's wrong with Wayland? It's amazing as far as I have used it. I started using with when Fedora 40 shipped plasma 6.
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Part of me wants to troll and come up with crazy statements
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