this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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Privacy

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It is truly upsetting to see how few people use password managers. I have witnessed people who always use the same password (and even tell me what it is), people who try to login to accounts but constantly can't remember which credentials they used, people who store all of their passwords on a text file on their desktop, people who use a password manager but store the master password on Discord, entire tech sectors in companies locked to LastPass, and so much more. One person even told me they were upset that websites wouldn't tell you password requirements after you create your account, and so they screenshot the requirements every time so they could remember which characters to add to their reused password.

Use a password manager. Whatever solution you think you can come up with is most likely not secure. Computers store a lot of temporary files in places you might not even know how to check, so don't just stick it in a text file. Use a properly made password manager, such as Bitwarden or KeePassXC. They're not going to steal your passwords. Store your master password in a safe place or use a passphrase that you can remember. Even using your browser's password storage is better than nothing. Don't reuse passwords, use long randomly generated ones.

It's free, it's convenient, it takes a few minutes to set up, and its a massive boost in security. No needing to remember passwords. No needing to come up with new passwords. No manually typing passwords. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but if even one of you decides to use a password manager after this then it's an easy win.

Please, don't wait. If you aren't using a password manager right now, take a few minutes. You'll thank yourself later.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 6 months ago (4 children)

I was in the US Air Force for 20 years, working as an IT guy, and our computers were so locked down, you couldn't use password managers at work. Nor were you allowed to bring them in.

Almost every office I worked in was secured; no removable electronic devices allowed. No cell phones, no flash drives or removable drives. Heck, CDs were a controlled item. You had to check with a security manager for approval before bringing in a music CD, and and data CDs required a log of their use and physical control by a trusted agent.

Plus, the computers themselves had a custom-configured OS and you couldn't install any software on them that wasn't on a pre-approved list. Half the time, normal users needed to talk to an admin like me to install something, and I might not even have the rights at my level to do it.

I didn't get to mess around with password managers until I retired a couple years ago, and they've been a game changer! In the military, we needed unique complex passwords for everything, can't reuse passwords, can't write down passwords, and you had to change them every 60 days.

Having a password manager makes my personal accounts so much more secure. I can have super complex passwords for everything and not need to remember them. I currently have Proton Pass (been de-Googling my life and switching all my stuff over to Proton lately) and it's been wonderful.

I don't know why the military doesn't get some sort of password manager approved for use. This is far more secure than what they've been doing in the past. I had 3 standard password templates, then made minor changes to them for every unique account. If they got too complex, I'd forget them (and again, we weren't allowed to write them down). Now I can just auto-generate a 25+ character complex password and I don't even need to remember it. I love it!

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

I store my master password on a sticky note attached to the bottom of my desktop's power supply. Easily accessible if I were to die, but sufficiently secure that if it were physically compromised I would have significantly worse problems on my hands.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago

I’m not in IT but I followed the Michael Bazzell podcast until he disappeared. Guy was a bit paranoid but there was great info there. My understanding was browser saving passwords isn’t secure, that those passwords are open to scraping from bad players. Ofc I can’t reference this because the entire body of over 300 podcasts disappeared with him.

Agree on Bitwarden and such.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Using Proton Pass was a game changer to me , I don't have to ignore the necessity to put a strong and complicated password for security reasons anymore, Proton generate it to me and stores everything ( so I don't need to remember which password I set for which account ) But the bad aspects of cloud services worry me a little about this: the possibility of a security breach of the service, or the possibility of not being able to access it for any reason is a real disaster if it happens... so I'm thinking of exporting my passwords to another safe place for such cases.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (5 children)

But the bad aspects of cloud services worry me a little about this

KeePassXC is entirely local.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I know , but won't that affect my storage if I added +1000 password ?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

unless your storage is a floppy disk, won't be a problem

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I actually considered sticking it on a floppy disk I have. It really is a wonder how Linux is able to recognize floppy disks immediately...

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Passwords don't take up much space.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago

It shouldn't take up too much space. My personal password file is under 2 KB, so for you it may be 1 MB at most.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I've been using Firefox's built in password store, plus 2fa for sensitive accounts when possible. Are there any known issues? Uploading all my passwords to someone else's server sounds silly.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Theoretically, it's possible to store a encrypted database on someone else's system in a way where they never have the ability to see its contents, as you encryption and decryption only ever happens in the client on your devices.

Whether this is actually done in a way that enforces that on various password managers is unknowable with proprietary code.

Personally I self-host vaultwarden. All the benefits of syncing my passwords across devices, but the server enabling that, runs on my hardware.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

To use that remote encrypted db, you need a stored client side secret, and a customer service department that deals with users who have lost that. See also "mud puddle test".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (5 children)

and a customer service department that deals with users who have lost that

I'd not heard of the "mud puddle test" but I immediately thought that any provider that does that, is doing it wrong.

Unless there's an exploit of which I'm unaware, my self-hosted solutions pass the mud puddle test.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Uploading all my passwords to someone else’s server sounds silly.

KeePassXC is entirely local.

Are there any known issues?

LastPass (ironically) explains this best: https://blog.lastpass.com/posts/2022/06/why-you-shouldnt-store-passwords-in-a-browser

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Thanks but the LastPass article is partly inapplicable and partly marketing. The one good point it makes for non-corporate users is about leaving your browser open where attackers can access it, say at the office. For a while I tried using a FIDO2 token but they weren't well enough supported at the time. Maybe that is easier now.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I guess the reasons I would make would be not all accounts are web-based, and using a browser for anything other than browsing is a bad idea. Browsers aren't exactly focused on keeping passwords safe, so why not use a tool designed for it? Don't keep all your eggs in one basket

P.S. Yes, FIDO2 is much more supported

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I guess I use a few APIs with auth tokens that are like passwords but I don't see how a password manager would help. Yeah the tech for this stuff could be better, but vendors keep messing it up.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What about your Lemmy account?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

On my laptop I use the Firefox password store. On my phone I mostly use Voyager which presumably stores the password in a protected app file. It could probably be extracted by rooting the phone but that has gotten harder to do, and anyway it's also in Firefox on the same phone. Voyager is basically an API client. I can see some interesting ways to improve this but haven't cared enough.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I always recommend Proton Pass. A) because they have a forever free version and B) because hopefully they start looking into the whole suite in general and even if they don't subscribe, they are more aware afterwards (hopefully).

[–] [email protected] -5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

My password manager is

mkdir ~/Account/some.domain
cd $_
genpasswd | openssl some-cipher -k 'really strong encryption password' >pass.enc
echo username >login
#decrypt
cd ~/Account/some.domain
openssl some-cipher -d <pass.enc | xclip
#paste in field
xclip login
#paste in field

Couldn't be easier, couldn't be safer.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 125 points 6 months ago (12 children)

One person even told me they were upset that websites wouldn't tell you password requirements after you create your account,

To be fair, that is super fucking annoying. I hate when I tell bitwarden to save my password only to have the site come back with it being too long and only some special characters are allowed.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Clarification: They reuse the same password (such as "Password") and whenever they create an account they have to add special characters (like "Password1&" if numbers and #@&%$ were required) and when they login they forget which special characters were required by that service, meaning they don't know which special characters to append to their generic password to successfully login. The solution was to screenshot every password requirement for every service and still try to remember which characters were used.

But yes, there is an unrelated frustration where password requirements aren't presented upfront.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I migrated from Bitwarden to Proton Pass (mostly due to their OTP integrations) and I am enjoying it very much. They are constantly improving it, which is also a plus.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Do you mean OTP?

I self-host vaultwarden, and I have that. I think it's a paid feature if not self-hosting?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

@Charger8232 I have been using Vaultwarden (Unofficial Bitwarden compatible server written in Rust) selfhosted for a few years now, and I have to say I'm very happy with it. I also use the backup strategy, on some media (USB stick and SSD) encrypted with Veracrypt.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 6 months ago (2 children)

In my experience preaching this same thing to many users at work and just personal friends, they won't change their ways. Because "omg not another password to remember" and "that's too much work to login just to get a password".

I've just stopped trying to educate people at this point. That's on them when their info gets leaked or accounts drained.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (2 children)

People are already annoyed at base that they need any 2FA at all and don’t want to deal with more info. They just tune out.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Yup, they couldnt care less about any 2FA. But then they get the surprised Pikachu face when they get breached after being phished lol.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (6 children)

Tell them some password managers have TOTP support. I think I paid Bitwarden $10 for life or per year for TOTP so I don't need to use my phone.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

You are right. However most of the mainstream YouTubers promote rubbish password managers, which is why most people I know don't know about bitwarden. I usually recommend bitwarden or proton pass. (I'm self-hosting vaultwarden). More privacy focus YouTubers need to promote bitwarden, keepassxc etc. (I'm waiting for proton pass self-hosting option).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

whats missing, since the proton pass source code is available?

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago

but bitwarden, keepassxc don't pay them.... RHEEEE

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

Absolutely this. Been using KeePassDX for years and its made my life so much easier. I am waiting for it to support passkeys so i can start using them where possible.

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