Just kick Turkey out of NATO already.
this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2024
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Fine. “ . . . access was blocked in response to Instagram removing posts by Turkish users . . “ Sure, yes, I said - Fine.
At this point, I am 100% on board with whatever we have to do to kill faceplant or the Instapot or whatever they are. Government decree, guerrilla action, meteor-from-space, snatching the phone out of grandma’s hands: whatever. Do it.
So to avoid Instagram censoring posts they blocked all of Instagram
Haniyeh earned his Specially Designated Global Terrorist title on January 31, 2018. A company caught hosting terrorism-promoting content can face company-ending consequences. Executives have been sent to prison for turning a blind eye to doing business with sanctioned countries. Instagram was probably complying with these regulations.
Punishing Instagram for complying with the law puts Turkey into a precarious position. It's an open secret that they offer cheap rubber, steel, and other raw materials because they're willing to lie on forms and act as a conduit for Russia and Iran to bypass sanctions. Too much attention on sanctions programs and Turkey in the same sentence can potentially end that part of their economy, which they can't really afford right now.
If Instagram wants to make money in Turkey, it needs to comply with Turkish law. Which means Instagram can't censor content to support Nethenyahu's genocide.
I'm extremely unfamiliar with Turkish law. Is there an anti-censorship law like this? I would imagine it requires various carveouts for liability in case of actual law-breaking content, libel, etc.
My assumption that this was simple corruption where a private company compelled the government to take actions for their immediate benefit.
i don't know about any anti-censorship laws, but Turkey is famous for their censorship laws https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Turkey
Instagram's loss, Tiktok's gain.
Hamas are fighters for the freedom of their land. Children murderers and genocide enablers are the real terrorists.
Not a fan of Hamas or Erdogan but who is considered a terrorist and who is subject to sanctions is very arbitrary. Why is Netanjahu not considered a terrorist? Why are there no sanctions against Israel? We both know the answers, but the point is, in a rules for thee not for me kind of world who even cares anymore?
Subjective, but not arbitrary. Here's the relevant sections of EO13224 (linked above):
...may designate foreign individuals or entities that he determines have committed, or pose a significant risk of committing, acts of terrorism that threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the U.S.;
...
For the purpose of the Order, “terrorism” is defined to be an activity that (1) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and (2) appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking.
There are 8 US citizens still held hostage by Hamas in Gaza - which means they meet the criteria of both 1 and 2. That's without opening up any other accusations of terrorism.
There are also u.s. citizens being bombed in Gaza, is the person dropping the bomb or anyone on the chain of command up to Bibi being designated a terrorist?
Searching news archives doesn't pull up any results for Palestinian American citizens killed in Gaza. I probably missed something if you're so confident, so please send some sources if you have them on hand.
Designations of terrorism were more or less invented to deal with non-state actors. Which is why the definitions largely overlap with war crimes. If you'll recall, the ICC are discussing whether or not to issue warrants for the arrest of Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar, Deif, and Haniyeh.
You don't remember the incident where Israel double tapped an aid convoy with American citizens inside. Even Biden heard about it and thought it was fucked up.
It's true Palestinian Americans will rarely get reported on due to media bias, but they'll still report on incidence like these effecting international aid workers and journalists as they sympathize with them more, even the above article mentions 196 have been killed and that's from months ago.
As for the state non-state definition the u.s. has gotten around that with calling them "state sponsors of terrorism" putting them on a list and imposing sanctions. The fact Cuba is on that list and Israel isn't really shows the legitimacy of it.
It happens all the time but it’s a bit hard to find them because the media doesn’t treat Palestinian-Americans the same way it treats Israeli-Americans. Palestinian dead is unfortunately not newsworthy or at least not headline worthy. Here’s one article anyway: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/23/world/palestinian-americans-demand-answers-invs/index.html
This is about the West Bank not Gaza, but given that there’s virtually no Hamas in West Bank this imo makes the terrorism charges even stronger.
That being said I think you have a point that there are some frameworks to follow. My problem is that the US only considers their enemies terrorists and doesn’t care about their own / their allies‘ war crimes, hence their hostility towards the ICC.
Likud consisted of terror organizations before becoming a political party. Doesn‘t stop Western politicians from simping for them. Again, I’m not a fan of Hamas but when they took over Gaza they became the government. Yet, we labeled them terrorists and still consider them as such.
You could then say „yeah but no Palestinian state exists“ and I would say that again, the USA do not recognize Palestine as opposed to most countries on this planet. That and the siege on Gaza since 2007 make it pretty much impossible to act as a state even though Palestinians want to do that since the British mandate period, hell since it was ruled by the Ottomans.
I hope you get what I mean, the rules are only the rules for some.
The US followed up on those two incidents - quite publicly. Simply hand waving that it happens and blaming the media is not very convincing. ]=]
...virtually no Hamas in West Bank...
5 fewer as of a few hours ago. Hopefully the last ones in the entire West Bank, but somehow I doubt it. This statement is only exposing that you don't have very deep knowledge of the current state of affairs in the West Bank. Not surprising given the amount of propaganda and less than factual coverage of the conflict.
Likud consisted of terror organizations before becoming a political party
So were the ANC, the PLO, and many others around the world. Hell, the Republican party used to be staunchly against racism and slavery. Organizations change over time. But that change happens slowly, and to remove the stench of terrorism takes demonstrable steps away from violence.
The rules are applied evenly - Israel isn't designated a terrorist state because there is no such definition. It simply doesn't make sense - terrorism was invented to describe war crimes committed by non-state actors, and had no established process to be held responsible for their crimes. Israel may not heavily punish those who commit war crimes, but they do prosecute them, and that's the bar that's needed to avoid sanctions. Like it or don't like it, but that's the way the world works right now.
Ah yeah I had no idea you’re that kind of person. Well let me phrase it this way: I don’t care what you claim exists or doesn’t exist. As long as the USA don’t apply their standards to everyone which includes the genocidal apartheid settler colonialist project and its terrorist leaders I couldn’t care less who they call terrorist or who they sanction. They can do it but they have no moral authority to claim that it is in the name of humanitarian values.
If you don't care what the US does - why argue that they should impose sanctions on Netanyahu? Shouldn't you be arguing that Germany impose sanctions on Israel (feddit.org being based in Germany and aimed at a German userbase)?
Israel may not heavily punish those who commit war crimes, but they do prosecute them, and that’s the bar that’s needed to avoid sanctions. Like it or don’t like it, but that’s the way the world works right now.
The ICC is seeking arrest warrants against Netanyahu and Gallant because evidently Israel is not prosecuting its war criminals.
A process that has been criticized by many specifically because it ignores and undermines Israeli efforts to prosecute war crimes committed by its own. It violates the principle of complementarity, so there's a decent chance the request for warrants will be dismissed without prejudice on those grounds alone.
I personally believe the request was made to appease the Muslim world as the others in that request are Deif, Haniyeh, and Sinwar. Those warrants will likely be granted, given that the State of Palestine (signatory to the Rome Statutes and the reason for jurisdiction) clearly lacks the ability or willingness to hold them or their organization responsible for their actions.
Stop spreading war crime propaganda.
Israel has every ability to prosecute its own citizens living inside its own borders. It is not undermined by the ICC arrest warrant. Switching offender and victim of course is a typical Israeli propaganda strategy. The ICC acts because Israel chooses not to act. And the ICC does not appease anyone, as can been seen with the vile attacks now being thrown at it by the US and other Israeli allies. Also the Mossad was harassing ICC members for close to a decade now to prevent them for prosecuting Israeli war crimes.
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