This is really off-topic, but I will let it stay up as long as it doesn't derail.
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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How is this off topic? I'm asking for conservatives views in the conservative community, in a thread I made.
We stick to news articles, opinion pieces, etc to talk about current events. R2 states it must be pro-consecutive or anti-liberal. This is neither.
So the rules don't matter, only your opinion does.
This is a thread trying to find pro-conservative opinion pieces.
This is not ask a conservative.
He's the mod who keeps this community content what it is. Empty and biased. He's super pissed that he can't keep a positive score while talking about pro-conservative topics, he'll say he doesn't care but it's just another liberal vote he wishes didn't happen. When he was first made a mod, in his declaration thread he spent HOURS arguing about Hunter Biden's laptop. He's an old man with an ounce of power and a red streak in his soul so of course he's going to power trip. Just letting you know this post can stay probably gave him a semi.
I’m a conservative so I can answer this question without speculation. I think intersex people should:
- be burdened as little as possible by taxes
- have a relatively free market so that if they can’t find dignity under any employer, they can go straight to the market as an entrepreneur
- keep a gun or two at home, to keep the government from having absolute power
- focus their efforts locally, to achieve maximum possible good from their time on earth
- face their fears willingly in order to develop the courage and moral strength to withstand hard times and tragedy
- be judged on their merit and the moral choices they make, not based on their biological characteristics
- be free to innovate and form economic relationships based on their own and their collaborators’ consent (aka have access to a free market)
I don't understand how this is not the top answer in the thread. In my opinion this is almost the best possible answer.
Two things I have issue with: "have a relatively free market" should be "have a well-regulated market." Obviously "well regulated" is open to interpretation, but there should be some agreement that the 2008 financial crisis was the result of insufficient market regulation.
"Be judged on their merit and the moral choices they make, not based on their biological characteristics."
Sadly, this is a very untypical view. It's clear that some of the most strict and punative conservative viewpoints are based on biological characteristics. Like, a lot. So much that it prompted Op's question: where do intersex people fit into the strict conservative biological based rules on who can go where and do what?
Side stepping the real question shows that conservatives don't really want to talk about, or know about intersex people, or anyone who isn't the straight white heteronormative christian default. Its clear that most conservatives attitude about people who don't fit that profile is that they should know their place, keep quiet and not be uppity.
It's clear that some of the most strict and punative conservative viewpoints are based on biological characteristics.
I’ve not heard any conservatives say such a thing. Where did you get this idea?
Where did I get this idea? Well, I grew up In a very conservative neighborhood in a conservative town and went to a conservative private school and church.
You've never heard anyone say such a thing? You are either pulling my leg or you are unable to see it for what it is.
Here are just some of the prescriptive conservative ideas based on people's biological characteristics: who can wear what clothes, what toys are appropriate for which children, hair length, who can go into which washroom, who can get married to whom, who can play what sports, decisions about abortion, and on and on.
Why so much time and discussion devoted to trans people in conservative media? Because they break the rules on who can do what, arbitrarily based on the junk you were born with. In the case of Imane Khelif, what she was born with was not enough to shield her from controversy and harassment.
When I was a kid I wanted an easy bake oven so i could make cake and eat cake, no other reason. What I recieved was a powerful whuppin for "tryin to act like a girl." That's where I got that idea.
I grew up in a very conservative neighborhood in a very conservative town and went to a very conservative religious school. There was no sex-ed but there was a class on hygiene. There was no dancing but there was a "banquet" at which they served rice pilaf and rubbery chicken breast from a steam table.
There was never any mention of gay people, trans, intersex or anything else except that sex was reserved for a man and a woman after they were married.
The only exception to the above is the mention of eunuchs by Jesus in Matt 19:22. But what is a eunuch? I was told it was a person who had their genitals cut off and lived a life of celibacy.
Based on my experience alone, I would say that a common conservative attitude and policy is to ignore, deny and/or never acknowledge anything that's not straight man+woman married for the purpose of having children.
In the case of the boxing woman, it's interesting to think that if you only have two categories and you have to put her into one, some people put her in one category and some the other, but there doesn't seem (to me) to be any clear objective way to tell which is right. This could be an indication that there really are more than 2 genders.
Or it could be that a cisgender woman of color whose body doesn't conform to fascist eugenic purity standards is being targeted because she's a better boxer than the white women and well, racism.
Something that's turned me off of "modern" conservatism is that "modern" MAGA assholes simply refuse to believe that intersex people exist.
A reasonable Conservative following Jesus's word should note that Jesus hung out with the leapers, Jesus not just condoned but celebrated heretics like the Samaritans, and Jesus always favored the "outsider's opinion". A true Christian should always be accepting of others, including Intersex people. Especially intersex, they are creations of God and if you believe that God is good then the creation of God is good.
The problems occur when the assholes start to think that Intersex is bad, anti-conservative, anti-religion or some shit. Then all of a sudden you trigger the fight-or-flight response and Conservatives lash out. There's also a degree of historic anti-gay writings in the Bible (ex: Sodom, as well as some writings from Paul), that somehow get wrapped up into intersex issues (somehow gay == intersex in some unstudied people's brains?!?!? Or something).
In any case, I feel like the religious interpretation is clear. Every person is holy, outsiders are welcome. If you need to denegrate Intersex individuals and call them diseased (like the Leapers of Biblical time), whatever, that's still a group of people Jesus explicitly called out as holy, as the Leapers were more ready and willing to accept Jesus's preaching than the Pharisees.
A lot of modern Conservatism is actually warned against by Jesus and the various parables of the Pharisees. Its not that "Jews" in general were problematic, but certain... cults? Certain... ways of thought and ideologies... are based on false pride and false-understanding of the scriptures. And smarter people find themselves in this doom loop where you want to join the people who have studied more (the Pharisees were scribes and scholars)... but you end up missing the forest for the trees.
Jesus always said to take a step back and look at the big picture, rather than being so focused on scripture.
Imo, do whatever you want. The only caveat is in very specific situations like women's sports, where fairness is an issue. Testosterone is a steroid, and is banned from most leagues. Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids, and is unfair to cis women. And since the whole point of women's sports is for them to be able to compete fairly, trans women are in a bind
It's no one's fault really, just an unfortunate biproduct of evolution.
Testosterone is a steroid, and is banned from most leagues.
Let's clarify this a bit. Testosterone is a steroid, but so is vitamin D. Testosterone is NOT banned for any competition, but being out of range is banned. A man at 750 would be normal.
A woman at 100 would be abnormal. A woman at 750 is on juice.
A bodybuilder can be in the range of 2000-4000. I have heard as high as 6,000.
Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids, and is unfair to cis women
Women produce testosterone as well. Their range is 15-70
A trans woman may produce testosterone, but once they have an orchiectomy, they will no longer produce and may have to supplement.
That said, an intersex woman like the one at the Olympics is not a trans woman. She was born with a genetic defect, which allows he to produce more testosterone.
It's tricky as I don't know if she should be banned or not. She isn't as strong as a man, but she is stronger than most women. Once you had in the weight lifting, she is going to be a lot stronger, but she is a woman.
From a safety issue, I could see banning her, but it is unfair that she was just born different.
Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids
I'm not talking about trans people, I'm talking about intersex people.
Oh sorry. I have a really bad habit about that.
On intersex people, imo it needs to be on a case by case basis, and I do not have the expertise to weigh in on it.
That said, IMHO, it should fairly strict. The mens side should remain open to all. The women's side should be for women only, since other wise they'd lose everytime.
...Except that they don't. It depends on the sport. Danica Patrick out-competed men in drag racing. Shooting sports with stationary targets tend to have almost complete gender parity. On the other hand, no men at all are competing in artistic swimming, despite the fact that they are permitted to. And there's not any kind of straight line between testosterone and performance; yeah, lots and lots of testosterone is good for bulking up, but it's not so great for ultramarathon runners.
For boxing specifically, men win.
Again: it's not that cut and dried. In the same weight classes, men and women are much more competitive. When you look at weight classes for women versus the weight classes for men, you see much broader range of weights for men, e.g., 51-57kg for men, and 50-54kg for women. My bet is that, all training being equal, you'd probably see very little variation between men and women for a 50kg boxer. (But fewer women take up boxing in the first place, and they get into boxing later in life. So it's difficult to compare.)
There are def. differences, but those differences get really hard to nail down and assign definitively to one gender or another when you're looking at a micro level. Neurobiology isn't a simple, middle-school level subject.
Expect a weird take on the subject backed by no data
what do you mean? people with a variety of intersex conditions have been extensively documented by medical science.
Well yes but you asked for the conservative view