this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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Privacy

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Hi, my post is focusing specifically on YouTube since I observed the following categories have less intrusive solutions or privacy focused solutions, even if they are paid:

  • Operating Systems (Linux, for example)
  • Instant Messaging (Element, for example)
  • Community Messaging (Revolt, for example)
  • E-Mail (Proton, for example)
  • Office (libreoffice, for example)
  • Password Managers (Bitwarden, for example)

However, how do we distribute videos and watch them without data collection? I am NOT asking how do I use a privacy-focused front-end for YouTube, by the way, I am aware they exist.

I am wondering how we obtain a FOSS solution to something super critical such as YouTube. It is critical since it contains a lot of educational content (I'd wager more than any other platform), and arguably the most informative platform, despite having to filter through a lot of trash. During COVID, we even saw lecturers from universities upload their content on YouTube and telling students to watch those lectures. (I have first-hand experience with this at a respectable university).

I refuse to accept that there is nothing we can do about it.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

Ok so first let’s go over what YouTube provides: Storage, community tools, search algorithm, add sense, authority over copyright, front end.

Realistically you could probably cover the front end, search algorithm, and community tools with FOSS collaboration.

Everything else gets harder.

For storage, the VAST swaths of data, and forever growing nature of YouTube storage nearly guarantee its market dominance alone… if they can contain that infinitely growing monster forever. Its their greatest strength and can also be its Achilles heel. I would propose that video hosting would be covered by the creatives. This change creates a ripple effect that effect all the other challenges, but immediately raises the bar for entry, and with the exception of the highest earning creators, videos would have to be cycled out when their earning capability falls below cost to host. But! This has good sides, like the best videos would linger and bad videos would fall off increasing the quality of what remains. Creatives would have more control over their videos. You could also have a system that rotates videos between a cold storage and live videos, where cold storage would use a torrent like system vs the streaming of a live system, which would allow cheap storage of low earning videos to still have them available for those who could wait.

Copyright, so with the creatives holding the keys to the content, this new youtube would only facilitate the connection and front end, but would not regulate it. So copyright claims would have to be handled by the creatives. This is a sharp as hell double edged sword! You won’t be copyright trolled as successfully any more BUT your odds of ending up in court could be higher as there is no way to appease the record labels and what have you so readily. There would also not be a method to scan the videos to easily find other people who are stealing YOUR content either. And you would have to deal with the person stealing your content directly.

And ad sense. Without a unifying front to bargain with advertisers, it will be like the Wild West. Most advertisers don’t have assurances of enforced standards and will be very timid to employ this new system. They would all have to vett creatives separately, and it would work allot like Sponcers do now, but ultimately i think it would be a boon, but for a wile the money won’t be there.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

You get me $10B annually or so, and then we can start to talk. Your single-fiber line and homelab will handle, what, 25 simultaneous users? Just have to scale that to a billion daily users or so, no bigger.

Also yt is "super critical"? Super critical is power for ICU wards and stuff, nobody is going to have a heart failure because they can't get their daily dose of #shorts. Also gestures at Wikipedia, who is glaring at you.

I think you're giving yt way, way too much credit, but simultaneously thinking that any one of us has the financial capability to not only have but risk that kind of cash. Companies have tried and failed. Users aren't doing it, chief.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

Easy solution: host an FTP with all the videos. It has existed long before YouTube was a thing.

More advanced solution: Torrent ala Pirate Bay. High quality videos have been distributed this way long before YouTube even supported 1080p. Peertube is based on similar solution as this.

The main problem is to attract content creators to the platform. The problem isn’t technical.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wish people would start uploading their videos to Pornhub so I wouldn't get embarrassed whenever someone sees the app on my phone.

/s...or am I?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago

Money. Lots and lots of it.

Hosting video on a significant scale is very expensive. Stupendously expensive.

Convincing people to join is also going to cost a lot of money. Consumers are on YT because creators are there, and they are already used to the platform. Creators are there because the consumers are there. And there is a robust infrastructure to make a living from content creation.

Financing is especially difficult for such a project, because companies are willing to pay way more for targeted ads. For which you need some data about your users. The more data you collect, the better the and targeting can be, the more companies are willing to pay.
Assuming there are enough users for companies to pay for advertising at all.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Peertube exists. Use it.

now I will admit that peertube is lacking content, but when you make something put it there. When you want something search there first and check out youtube last. This rewards those who publish there with your eyeballs

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[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I am NOT asking how do I use a privacy-focused front-end for YouTube, by the way, I am aware they exist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

My bad needed more coffee

The prior verbiage threw me off.

how do we distribute videos and watch them without data collection?

So opinion answer to the latter. Opinion answer. Don't ignore YouTube.

Steam didn't ignore Win32 and ask 10k devs to port to Linux. They partnered up with CodeWeavers, WINE and others to create Proton and it made the former task largely unnecessary.

Expand federated video services to cache all videos they stream in case the original gets dunked on. And then at the same time grow the platform.

A subsection of FOSS hates wealth, but people need to be able to lift themselves out of poverty, there has to be a profit motive and that profit has to largely go to the content creators.

Without motives and incentives you can build the most beautiful codebase ever and it won't take off.

Mass censorship is coming, so platforms that don't censor and host in countries where this is legally protected will have the advantage of growing new mega sites.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Look at the strangler pattern in microswrvice architecture. Applying this to your scenario, set up a front end to YouTube, cache the results locally (probably host in a place that allows it). Also host videos from other platforms like peertube. Once you have a lot of users, slowly prioritize "free" videos over YT content.

It's not likely to happen, but it's the pattern that FB uses to present news. First they showed a link to the story and you'd click through, then they required more of the story, then when all were hooked, they demanded the whole story to be displayed, effectively stealing all the users and the ability to advertise.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The biggest issue I've always heard people say when it comes to replacing a video hosting service like YouTube is needing storage space and bandwidth.

I feel like ipfs, the interplanetary file system, could be leveraged to do this but it would require a concerted effort to make a fast, stable, reliable, and federated YouTube replacement, and I imagine that we would need people to financially support it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

IPFS is not free storage. Someone has to "pin" your video, where it then takes up space on their hard drive.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Honestly the biggest thing all of us is missing to take it down is financial capital.

To get the kind of capital you need to take down YouTube, you need investment money from the kind of investors who will force you to enshittify to afford paying them back.

The financial issue is the biggest one, when it comes to any and all of these.

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[–] [email protected] 138 points 3 months ago (6 children)

I refuse to accept that there is nothing we can do about it.

I don't think you quite understand just how stupendous the amount of data Google processes from YouTube alone is. There is basically no way for hobbyists to provide an equivalent service. Very few companies have those kinds of resources. If you want, you can of course try running a PeerTube instance, but you rather quickly run in to problems with scaling.

I find it almost miraculous YouTube exists to begin with. It is no accident Google has very few competitors on that front, and I don't think YouTube is even profitable for them. Without Google's deep pockets and interest in monopolizing the market, YouTube would have withered a long time ago.

Trust me, I want a solution too. But 500 hours of content are uploaded to YouTube every minute. All of that is processed, re-encoded, and saved with multiple bitrates. You can't compete with that. YouTube might eventually keel over from Enshittification and its own impossibility, but replacing it with anything meaningful will be a challenge.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 3 months ago (3 children)

[...] I don't think YouTube is even profitable for them.

Correct. Even Google, one of the richest companies in the world, is struggling to afford the massive infrastructure required to run YouTube. That's why they've been cracking down on ad-blocking software lately.

Also, this is likely why they've been pushing their new updated Chromium-based infrastructure for web browsers, which will prevent ad-blockers from working on websites. If you're not using Firefox or Safari to browse the Internet by now, you should switch. They're the only independent browsers not using the Chromium framework.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

I'd even buy subscription if it was a family one without music bundled for a reasonable price. No such luck in my country.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I'd have agreed but hundreds of fmovies and similar sites exist on the high seas that provide free streaming of millions of HD content (movies, web series, etc.) somehow. They use some third-party video host that is magically able to concurrently serve millions of people.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

While I do agree with you, I also see twitch, TikTok and Patreon presenting models that are quite competitive with YouTube.

From a privacy perspective, free junk content like TikTok, YouTube and twitch will always be hard coupled with targeted advertising.

But Patreon (and onlyfans for that matter) do offer a model that can work without ads.

In fact, if Patreon also introduced an ad-supported tier and allowed you to more broadly see other content aside from the direct person you sponsor, it could probably grow quite a lot.

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[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Check out FreeTube to privately watch YouTube videos, and PeerTube for a complete replacement.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That is a temporary solution. OP is looking for a whole other service to replace YouTube.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm not sure if you can replace YouTube. It's too popular and has been a mainstay of the Internet for 19 years. We won't be able to convince people to just up and leave YouTube.

Best case scenario is to lead by example and start sharing videos from PeerTube.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

same issue with twitter. too much momentum, not enough enshitification yet

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

I haven't ever seen anything useful on twitter except funny tweets from musk

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Pray that Google enshittifies YouTube enough for any amount of creators to migrate to Peertube

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The big problem is there are a lot of good creators who are only able to be good creators in large part because of the YouTube ad revenue they get. They would otherwise have to work normal jobs and not be able to devote the time or resources to their videos. I have little faith that enough viewers would actually pay enough money to offset the ad revenue that supports many creators. Without a way to realistically replace that financial stream there is a large chunk of YouTube that can’t migrate. Of course, that’s no loss with some of the content mills churning out crap to try and cash in on the revenue, but I’ve seen plenty of good stuff that I’m not sure would exist another way.

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