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238

These states are basically begging you to get a heat pump (arstechnica.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

89 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Nine states are teaming up to accelerate adoption of this climate-friendly device.

Death is coming for the old-school gas furnace—and its killer is the humble heat pump. They’re already outselling gas furnaces in the US, and now a coalition of states has signed an agreement to supercharge the gas-to-electric transition by making it as cheap and easy as possible for their residents to switch.

Nine states have signed a memorandum of understanding that says that heat pumps should make up at least 65 percent of residential heating, air conditioning, and water-heating shipments by 2030. (“Shipments” here means systems manufactured, a proxy for how many are actually sold.) By 2040, these states—California, Colorado, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island—are aiming for 90 percent of those shipments to be heat pumps.

“It’s a really strong signal from states that they’re committed to accelerating this transition to zero-emissions residential buildings,” says Emily Levin, senior policy adviser at the Northeast States for Coordinated Air Use Management (NESCAUM), an association of air-quality agencies that facilitated the agreement. The states will collaborate, for instance, in pursuing federal funding, developing standards for the rollout of heat pumps, and laying out an overarching plan “with priority actions to support widespread electrification of residential buildings.”

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago

If they really want me to install a heat pump, please go knock some heads at PG&E. 30 cents per KWh makes it really hard.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The heat pump is the cheap part. You have to reengineer your hvac. It's fucking expensive.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

There are a lot of variables, but often this isn't the case... If you have a traditional gas furnace stack and ac unit it's often a drop in replacement for the AC. The ducting and air handler can be reused (especially if you're in a cold climate, the furnace can be utilized when the temp drops below the optimal operating temperature for the heat pump)

For some homes it really is an affordable option.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I mean the quotes we got were all in excess of a hundred thousand and the standard hvac is much, much less.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Like I said, there are a lot of variables.

[+] [email protected] -14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Fuck that, I'm already carbon neutral and don't need a ridiculous electricity bill. I heat my house with wood and pellets.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Looking at your post history, I think you're a troll but it's too hard to tell these days.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Heat pumps can be more than 100% energy efficient so you could be net negative to what you are doing now. Also genuinely curious that carbon neutral point. Wouldn't net carbon output be a bigger issue? Like you could burn half the Amazon rainforest to heat your home and claim you were carbon neutral right? But really, you do you!

[+] [email protected] -10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Burning wood releases CO2 -> trees use CO2 to grow and make wood -> Burning wood releases CO2 -> trees use CO2 to grow and make wood -> repeat ad-nauseam

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Trees do not grow as fast as wood burns. This is a 0 IQ take

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I ran some rough numbers on this, please pick apart. It takes 10 acres of hardwood to heat 2k ft^2 sustainably. If all land was divided equally between all living humans there would be about 2 acres per person. Not everyone needs heating, trees do not grow on 100% of the land. Definitely appears to be a privileged point, but there's some gray area.

As a temporary solution, while waiting for heat pumps to be competitive, and solar taking down huge swaths of trees, it could be rationalized to make sense, especially over oil heating.

In the area I'm located, most electric is generated by LNG at 40% efficiency, the avg daily temperature is 30°F, heat pump performs at ~1.25x. Burning wood at 50% efficiency appears to be more carbon neutral solution, when compared to all other solutions, even if you were to bury the wood taken down. At least temporarily, but when the renewable solutions are in place, it's a no brainier, heat pumps win.

I don't fully agree with the original comment, but it's not a 0IQ thought, it's best intentions, around an area of gray. There isn't a right answer, it's a moving target with a complex calculation and we need people who are trying to do the right thing, even if it's good intentions gone wrong.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What a useless "feel good about us doing something" memorandum of understanding. Everyone is already heading this way and will hit the mark with no state assistance at all.
A/C+heatpump systems are already way cheaper to use than gas heaters. Doubly so as more and more people are getting solar. No one but rich people wanting to feel warm air from vents are still installing gas heaters.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

A family member in rural MA talked to three different HVAC installers about converting from gas to heat pumps. All of them suggested leaving the gas system as backup for the coldest months for financial reasons, despite the MassSave whole house heat pump conversion $10k rebate. So, more legislative pressure would definitely still be a help to counter entrenched fossil fuel preference.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Like you said "keep as a backup". In areas that get cold, you can't just use a heat pump. Residential heat pumps are only good to about 20 to 25f. Once it gets colder than that you have to have a gas or an electric backup, and at that stage electric is less efficient than gas. So why install an electric backup system (coils that get hot in your blower unit) when you already have gas in place and set up? Running the electric backup coils like I have set up in my all electric house with heat pump uses a large amount of electricity when I have to use it. I have a heat pump that's a bit older (2007), so it stops warming closer to 30 degrees.

Large scale commercial units (like 14 ton units, where residential is usually around 3.5 ton) can do more. Even down to around -3 f, but not residential, and where I'm at it sometimes get below those temps as well.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

In areas that get cold, you can't just use a heat pump. Residential heat pumps are only good to about 20 to 25f.

That was true a couple decades ago, but hasn't really been true in a while.

A combination of inverters, variable speed compressors, vapor injection, and using slightly different refrigerants means there's a number of cold climate heat pumps on the market that will heat down below -13°F.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Our heat pump (Mitsubishi H2Hi) did fine regularly in single digits F last winter. I know there's a limit (for efficiency more than function) but it's definitely getting lower. We had one day -10F or so and no pipes froze (we were actually out of town which was nerve wracking so I don't know if the house got colder than the thermostat requested).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

We had 3 days of -10 to 0 ish in Colorado over MLK Jr weekend, my H2i kept 68F in the house no problem. It dropped to 67 a few times during defrost cycles, since I have no backup. It works great, im sure your house did just fine unless is severely undersized.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago (1 children)

came here to find the Technology Connections comment. was disappointed

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So link it. I'd be interested in his take.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The Technology Connections Heat Pump Playlist

[An Invidious link]

Almost 2 hours of heat pump nerdery! 😁

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It’s really great and a fun watch, like all his videos.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Alec is an intergalactic treasure

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