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[Thread #839 for this sub, first seen 29th Jun 2024, 15:25] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

VMs under KVM are pretty much bare metal and Proxmox doesn't use much for resources itself, it's basically a headless Debian with a webserver interface to do all the KVM stuff.

Proxmox, especially if you use ZFS for the VM datastore, makes a home lab so much easier to revert, backup and deploy/clone VMs and LXCs. I highly recommend it if you're just starting out. Once you wrap your head around it, it gets out of the way and lets you just tinker with your projects, and not have to manually do everything in VirtManager or at the command line.

Combined with Proxmox Backup Server, it's a production ready hypervisor for anything you decide to keep. Also, the HA features work well enough that I had my main routing OPNsense VM jump between nodes when the primary node lost a drive, and I didn't notice for a week, it was that seamless.

If you want to get things working then never "tinker" with things, maybe it's not worth it. But if you want to learn and be able to try new things it is really helpful. Having a new VM not breaking existing VMs reduces risk when trying something new.

It seemed nice at first, but one major issue: GPU passthrough was a nightmare. It cant be done in the UI and I didnt understand fully how it worked. There are many different tutorials not by promox that are outdated or may not work. It was frustrating enough I jumped to NixOS. Other hiccups included having to go to the terminal to passthrough drives for openmediavault, but that one was kind of straightforward atleast, and it worked first time.

In hindsight, I didnt actually need to virtualize everything at that level, so I never really had a good use case for it anyway. I use containers over entire VMs.

For me, pros are:

• Fun to learn something new
• Easy to test different systems. For example, I can play with different router or NAS software without having a separate computer around.
• I've been able to create different "computers" that serve different needs and require different levels of security.
• Currently, a cluster is probably overkill, it was a fun experiment.

Cons

• Updating all the different systems can be a pain. I could probably automate it, but I haven't made the time to learn it yet.
• As a beginner, I'm throwing a bunch of parts together and hoping it will work. I should probably be more strategic in my implementation, but I don't know what to prioritize. I'm sure I'll have to start over in the future.
• With the previous point, the storage setup doesn't seem very intuitive. I probably need to set up that better.
• I haven't quite figured out backups yet. My VM backups all seem too big. I need to figure that out and automate it.

Hope this is helpful.

Proxmox is based on kvm/qemu, and is very resource conservative. There is virtually no impact on performance due to the hypervisor, even on older processors. Scheduling on the cpu and hypervisor makes running multiple VMs at the same time trivial as well. RAM and I/O bandwidth are the two things that can affect performance. Running out of RAM due to too many VMs will grind you to a halt, but so would running too many applications or containers on bare metal. Running everything off of one spinning sata disk will make it impossible, but again, same downfall on bare metal.

Those minimal impacts to performance are a minor nuisance compared to the ability to run experiments and learn on sandboxed VMs. Now that TrueNAS has better virtualization support, it has caught my eye as a better homelab solution, but I will always have a proxmox server running somewhere in my stack just due to the versatility it gives me.

You need to understand what Proxmox gives you, which primarily is ability to run/manage/backup/etc VMs easily. If you don’t care about that, don’t use it. I have a fairly well spec’d desktop I use for homelab and I use proxmox because I often do experiments in VMs where snapshots and ability to jump to snapshots is essential. So is being able to spin up a new VM with new OS (like Windows) for example to do some testing. You can still do VMs without proxmox, but proxmox does make it a lot easier for living with daily.

I'm using a commercial desktop with an i5 Sandy bridge. I maxed out to 32Gb of ram only because I'm running trueNAS, debian with containers, and home assistant. Most RAM goes to trueNAS and trueNAS doesn't accurately report ram. For CPU, mostly just task limited but I don't really think thats a proxmox issue. Obviously it's not going to support an enterprise or even small business but it works for what I need of less than 4 users on my budget.

Proxmox doesn't really ask for much but I probably would recommend docker for your arm devices.

If you know your way around Linux you most likely don’t need Proxmox and its pseudo-open-source... you can try Incus / LXD instead.

Avoid Proxmox and safe yourself a LOT of headaches down the line. Go with Debian 12 + Incus/LXC, it runs VMs and containers very well. Proxmox ships with an old kernel that is so mangled and twisted that they shouldn’t even be calling it a Linux kernel. Also their management daemons and other internal shenanigans will delay your boot and crash your systems under certain circumstances.

LXD/Incus provides a management and automation layer that really makes things work smoothly - essentially what Proxmox does but properly done. With Incus you can create clusters, download, manage and create OS images, run backups and restores, bootstrap things with cloud-init, move containers and VMs between servers (even live sometimes).

Another big advantage is the fact that it provides a unified experience to deal with both containers and VMs, no need to learn two different tools / APIs as the same commands and options will be used to manage both. Even profiles defining storage, network resources and other policies can be shared and applied across both containers and VMs.

I draw your attention to containers (not docker), LXC containers because for most people full virtualization isn't even required. In a small homelab if you can have containers that behave like full operating systems (minus the kernel) including persistence, VMs might not be required. Either way LXD/Incus will allow for both and you can easily mix and match and use what you require for each use case. Hell, you can even run Docker inside an LXC container.

For eg. I virtualize the official HomeAssistant image with Incus because we all know how hard is to get that thing running, however my NAS / Samba shares are just a LXD Debian 12 container with Samba4, Nginx and FileBrowser. Same goes for torrent client that has its own container. Some other service I've exposed to the internet also runs a full VM for isolation.

Like Proxmox, LXD/Incus isn’t about replacing existing virtualization techniques such as QEMU, KVM and libvirt, it is about augmenting them so they become easier to manage at scale and overall more efficient. I can guarantee you that most people running Proxmox today it today will eventually move to Incus and never look back. It woks way better, true open-source, no bugs, no delayed security updates, no BS licenses and way less overhead.

Also, let's consider something, why use Proxmox when half of it’s technology (the container part) was made by the same people who made LXD/Incus? I mean Incus is free, well funded and can be installed on a clean Debian system with way less overhead and also delivers both containers and VMs.

Yes, there's an optional WebUI for it as well!

• Context on Incus vs LXD: https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/04/incus_lxd_fork/
• A sum of my experience with Proxmox over the years: https://lemmy.world/comment/7476411

Some documentation for you:

• https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/
• https://github.com/lxc/incus
• https://wiki.debian.org/Incus
• https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/docs/main/installing/
• https://github.com/canonical/lxd
• https://www.techtarget.com/searchitoperations/definition/LXD-Linux-container-hypervisor

I run it on a 4GB Fujitsu Futro S920! 😆 All the RAM seems to be used by 3 VMs. Some SWAP is been used, ok, but the Proxmox overhead doesn't seem that much.

I have tried a couple of Proxmox clusters, one with overkill specs and one with little Mini PCs. Proxmox does eat up a fair amount of memory, but I have used it with Ceph for live migrations. Its really useful to me to be able to power off a machine, work on it, then bring it back up, and have no interruptions in my services. That said, my Mini PCs always seemed to be hurting for RAM. So that's my pros and cons.