this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024

-97 points (24.3% liked)

Linux

47976 readers

1053 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

-97

GNOME June 2024: C'mon you can do better (lemmy.world)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

109 comments fedilink hide all child comments

New GNOME dialog on the right:

Apple's dialog:

They say GNOME isn't a copy of macOS but with time it has been getting really close. I don't think this is a bad thing however they should just admit it and then put some real effort into cloning macOS instead of the crap they're making right now.

Here's the thing: Apple's design you'll find that they carefully included an extra margin between the "Don't Save" and "Cancel" buttons. This avoid accidental clicks on the wrong button so that people don't lose their work when they just want to click "Cancel".

So much for the GNOME, vision and their expert usability team :P

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Looks nice to me. Basing design decisions on contrarianism is silly. If you don’t like it that’s alright. Disliking it because it looks like something else that also looks good is silly.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

These are pretty standard UI patterns.

[+] [email protected] -21 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Your point being...?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

His point is that you have no point.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

My point is: if you want to copy / be inspired by others at least do it right.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Bro... There is but so many ways to effectively organize something basic like that jfc.

Best or standard practice, ever heard of the concept?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So, copying is making something identical. But something that’s different would rationally be called not copying, whereas you categorize it as poor copying. Interesting.

Ever hear of two things just being similar? We are talking about a UI - these things have always followed patterns that change as usage patterns change in the industry. I think you must be young and/or inexperienced because this kind of trend goes back to the ‘80s.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago

But something that’s different would rationally be called not copying, whereas you categorize it as poor copying. Interesting.

I would categorize it as poor copying because the copy doesn't conform to the design / UX patterns that were present on the "original" work.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

If it is standard design, it is not targeting iOS. That is his point.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago

Who gives a shit. Use the desktop you like. Don't post this /g/ tier bait.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I’ve only spent a few hours on my wife’s MacBook Pro which was still running Catalina (now Fedora) back in the days, and I didn’t think Gnome and MacOs were so similar.

To be honest I felt a bit lost on MacOs Catalina and felt like everything was difficult compared to Gnome.

But I guess Gnome is taking a lot of inspiration from the MacOs aesthetic, and it’s okay with me because it looks great.

I don’t have a lot of experience with other DE on Linux, but they lack the clean aesthetic of Gnome.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

To be honest I felt a bit lost on MacOs Catalina and felt like everything was difficult compared to Gnome.

Just because you aren't used to the macOS workflow it doesn't mean it is bad - that's the same argument you GNOME fan boys do with Windows users ;)

But I guess Gnome is taking a lot of inspiration from the MacOs aesthetic, and it’s okay with me because it looks great.

Yes, it's okay, and that was never an issue in this discussion. The issue is that they didn't took enough inspiration on basic UX patterns.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Well what I meant is that if Gnome was taking so much inspiration from MacOs, being a Gnome user, I wouldn’t have felt lost on MacOS.

I also don’t mind Gnome taking what’s great from every other OS, as it’d clearly be stupid not to if an idea is great.

I also think that people should be more open minded about what others are enjoying. I prefer Linux, but I can also understand that some people just want to have the most compatible OS with everything, aka Windows. Or the best ecosystem, aka Apple.

It is not my choice, and I’m trying to convince people to switch to something else, but just badmouthing their choice when it has objectively some advantages isn’t gonna help.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Gnome is so much better than Mac OS

Also it is kind of insulting to call gnome a clone of something else. It is the work of thousands of people all over the globe. It isn't trying to be a copy of anything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It is the work of thousands of people all over the globe. It isn't trying to be a copy of anything.

There's a lot of ideology at play here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Yeah you are right. It just annoys me when people call it a cheap knock off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Wait - Gnome user here (heavily modified and with multiple extensions) ...

macOS window management and trying to using it via keyboard is a totally miserable experience (forced to use it at work :-/ ) ... at the same time, Apple thinks their users are smart enough to use tags, while Gnome developers think the user are too dump to use tags. I still happily prefer Gnome over macOS on my desktop for literally everything, macOS has no proper software management, all apps try to up-sell me on their shitty i-cloud offerings, setup cannot be properly automated, the 'auto features' totally suck and do everything I do not want them to do and macOS feels too slow for the hardware it runs on...

Gnome sucks, but it sucks less for me than all other alternatives on the desktop at the moment...

My biggest reason to stick with Gnome are Wayland, Evolution/Online Accounts and that I can automatically configure Gnome to something usable with dconf/gsettings. I am not holding my breath that KDE ever gets their KMail story under control, stability as in zero crashes and being fully configurable via Ansible. The very moment this happens, I'll happily jump ship. (Of course also waiting for Wayland support for Xfce :-P)

[+] [email protected] -6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Apple thinks their users are smart enough to use tags, while Gnome developers think the user are too dump to use tags

Isn't this ironic? The DE with a user base that is way more tech savvy people thinks users can't use tags.

macOS has no proper software management, all apps try to up-sell me on their shitty i-cloud offerings,

What are you talking about?? At least on macOS app icons are consistent not the crap they are on GNOME.

macOS (...) setup cannot be properly automated

This couldn't be further from the truth. Apple makes automated setup even easier than it is on MS ecosystems, companies can literally buy a computer on the Apple Store and have it shipped to an employee with the companie's profile pre-installed by Apple without even needing to touch or open the box. The employee get's the computer, opens the box and just has to login with this corporate account.

You've Apple's own MDM, Jamf, JumpCloud and so many others. Even Ansible can be used to configure, setup and automated macOS deployments.

macOS feels too slow for the hardware it runs on…

Well at least it doesn't like a 5 second pointless fade animation after every single click like GNOME does, nor does it bundle web technologies for theming that make the DE be as slow as it can get when it comes to rendering a new window.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I wish the thing about tags was ironic

Concerning the rest of your points: Icons are one of the few things I never had an issue with in Gnome. ;-)

Concerning automated setups, the only system I care fore is Linux and am forced to use macOS. For my use cases, I don't care about the tooling/possibilities for companies to install crap on my machine (my company does that). Using Ansible to automate my setup for macOS is theoretically possible, but such a crappy experience compared to Linux, that I don't bother. Not to mention no unified installation/update system on macOS and the shitty default apps like Finder, Window management etc. The solution which sucks the least for me is using macOS as dump VPN driver for my virtual Linux box, so I can get shit done.

... no need to argue about bad Gnome defaults, it is trivial to disable all animations and the shell is fast enough even on my netbook. :-)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

it is trivial to disable all animations

Yeah you can go into settings and toggle of a switch, however they don't disable everything. ~

Whenever you go into Settings > Accessibility > Enable Animations and disable it one would expect that ALL animations would be disabled while in fact they aren't. It should behave like Xfce that is, click on something and get the instant result, no delay, no very small animation / fade like GNOME still does.

Bottom line: that option in GNOME is misleading and doesn't do what it advertises.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think that a lot of the recent GNOME design choices are merely because they're trying to improve usability on mobile devices. It also just so happens that Apple is trying to make the macOS desktop closer to iOS to encourage people to move from Windows. They have similar goals, which leads to similar design choices. And all design is derivative, anyway. Who cares.

load more comments