You guys should comment on his video and let him know what you think.
this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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GenZedong
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I definitely encourage everyone here to comment, if they’d like, as the comments so far are just sort of meh. It would be nice to add important context the he omitted.
I was quite let down by this video, I know that they said there would be no coverage of the internal politics for brevity, but avoiding that makes this video essentially useless. The internal politics are some of, if not the most important aspect of this war and not taking about it just makes the topic lose any sort of substance. Without the internal politics you are just parroting what everyone already pretty much knows and it makes it seem like this war came out of nowhere.
Have the Deprogram boys ever talked at length about the Ukraine-Russia proxy war? I know they’ve mentioned it here and there but nothing super deep, just little comments.
I think they missed a huge opportunity to talk about what this war is truly about and where it originated, this could have been a great video to educate others on the deep rooted context that informs this conflict but I guess we couldn’t get that… maybe next time.
Would you say that JT is a revisionist?
I wouldn’t say so. Based on how he speaks about Palestine, China, etc. he’s definitely not revisionist; its just this one topic, Ukraine, that he and the other Deprogram boys have a strange stance on, as in its a whole lot of nothing. This is just the one thing they avoid talking about at length and it’s very strange why they don’t.
Maybe is because their platforms can be taken down since every pro-Russia platform was taken down from YouTube.
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He has a video on the CPUSA channel iirc on the war, calling it a proxy war and all that. I think since his channels are more directed at libs it took a very "centrist" stance trying to avoid controversy. For socdems/radlibs, admitting Ukraine is the vassal it is is a hard pill to swallow (especially in the US where I presume most the viewers are, where the war had pretty much no downsides). Nevertheless, in 2024 we have multiple statements and articles from the most fervent NATOist and pro-western sources spelling out that the war IS fought for the US' benefit, and the 2014 coup WAS a US effort.
That said, I think it's incorrect for JT to still be portraying the war in such a way on his channels. The war should be seen for what it is, before it inevitably disappears from libs' memory and people can get away with saying stupid shit and get away with it. It's not a secret that he's a "tankie", too. I don't think the people supporting his channel are oblivious to that, so I wouldn't say it's a money problem. But then again, I'm not him.
This is an excuse that people have made for the deprogram guys for over 2 years now. I know because I myself was under the same impression. But this is proven to be completely bullshit and irrelevant for quite a while now. The whole "they are appealing to libs and want to take a centrist approach to sensitive topics" crap completely went out the window the moment they decided to comment in support of Gaza in the wake of the genocide since last October. All their channels got blacklisted from advertisers and they decided to throw caution to the wind and drop any pretense in their revolutionary messaging, since they have nothing to lose anymore. Just look at any of JT's videos since October, and this is most evident.
If the goal was to cultivate a following of liberals and western moderates then start to slowly get them radicalized, it has failed or rather the plan has been long derailed. They ended up attracting a load of ultras and weirdos, which they'll never convince of anything regardless. I think even they know this at some level because their messaging has shifted.
If they're ready to tell the truth about Gaza, then they should do the same for Ukraine, simple as that. From here on, any milquetoast or weak spirited commentary should be rightfully called out, we should expect better from them.
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I completely understand why JT uses the language he does, I really do, but there has to be a way to portray the war accurately without using the framing or terms that would trigger anyone watching. Because this is what happens when there is not effort put in, you get lackluster content at best or add to the misinformation at worst. I don’t want to be too hard on him, and maybe I’m coming off that way, but it’s from a place of frustration from what could have been vs what we actually got. Gentle parenting libs is hard, I know, but I think the effort is worth it, this video is just not it and it doesn't really add anything to the discussion either. At the end of the day I know he can do better and I hope the next video he makes is.
Yeah, I agree. He did a better job on the Taiwan video, taking into account that he was being that centrist. The Europe video was very basic, but still getting the point across.
Yeah, I agree that this honestly was one of his worst videos.
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I think they missed a huge opportunity to talk about what this war is truly about and where it originated, this could have been a great video to educate others on the deep rooted context that informs this conflict but I guess we couldn’t get that… maybe next time.
That's just the thing... In what way are you better than the liberals if you talk about this very important stuff after the conflict has ended, not while it's still ongoing? To paraphrase, "Liberals are always against every war except the current one". You educating people on the matter makes a difference - it stirs people in a direction different from the common Western propaganda narrative, which helps bring down this bubble. When it is over and they come out and say "hey, you know what? what actually happened in Ukraine was this and that and this and that...", it would be 10 times less impactful.
This video was just a whole lot of nothing, and they could’ve done so much good by releasing one that went into what the actual conflict was about, and yet… we got this. We need people talking about the true nature of this war more than ever and, just like you said, it will be useless when all is said and done. It needs to happen now or there is no point. I know there are some academics who have talked about it (Ivan Katchanovski, my beloved) but their platforms and reach aren’t nearly as accessible or widespread as people like the Deprogram guys. It just sucks…
This is hands down the worst video i have ever seen from these guys. It is so ignorant and so steeped in western mainstream media propaganda on this conflict it could have been made by Vox or the Daily Beast and you would not notice the difference.
Dogshit video, to be honest.
Multiple critical pieces of the entire puzzle are missing, like almost everything the US had done before 2014, the coup and the fact that it was a US/CIA-orchestrated Nazi coup, the fascists themselves and their massive influence, the fact that it was Ukraine who's been provoking Russia for 8 long years, despite the Russian government trying to find a diplomatic solution. The fact that it was Ukraine who indiscriminately shelled civilians in the Donbas, that the people of Crimea rose up themselves, and that was evident by a plethora of polls from the 2000s, where even Ukrainian polling companies admitted the majority of the people (over 70%) in Crimea would like to not just secede but join the RF. Too much "both sides"-ing. I get that they are trying to dance around the truth and create a lib-friendly and babyleft-friendly picture, but my personal take on it is we're way past that point, given that the vast majority of Westerners want this conflict to end - it's literally tailing the masses. How can a person look at what is happening in Gaza, at the fact that the US is arming "israel" to the teeth, which makes them enablers of genocide and not "protectors of democracy", and not understand that they're not "protecting democracy" in Ukraine either? As one comrade aptly pointed out - "what is the common denominator between Palestine, Ukraine, Taiwan, Syria and Libya?". It should be clear by now.
Is JT aware of the true nature of this conflict? I'm inclined to think rather "yes" than "no", but I'm very unsure. Hakim definitely dropped some hints. Yugo - IDK, really. But, sadly, they are silent. Also - they have an Arab to tell them a bit about Palestine, I guess if they had a communist from Ukraine they would at least be more knowledgeable when it comes to Russia-Ukraine stuff.
I guess if they had a communist from Ukraine they would at least be more knowledgeable
Even that is not a guarantee. Because they did have a Russian "communist" on their program at one point and they learned absolutely nothing. Because the "communist" they chose to invite was some kind of ancom or Trot with a vendetta against the KPRF who basically did nothing but repeat western talking points about the Russian government.
It was as if they purposely picked a Russian "communist" who would just come on to validate every prejudice that western leftists have about Russia. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to find a Ukrainian "communist" to do the same.
Yeah, true. I meant if it was a well-educated ML with nuanced takes, not some anti-Russia, anti-China ultra or something. But something tells me they will chicken out if they get the chance.
My guess is they pre-approve not only guests but the talking points in the videos they make. And they did put the Syomin guy into the spotlight twice. You know how it goes - "fool me once..."
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It is the single worst video any of the Deprogram trio have ever put out. It misses the mark completely. I am not kidding but this was so bad that i had to unsubscribe from all of them, because there is something seriously wrong with people who call themselves communists and put out a video about the Ukraine conflict that comes across as if its only sources of information for the past ten (because this goes back to 2014) years have been the western media's propaganda about the conflict.
It's effectively peddling a pro-Ukraine narrative and outright lies on several instances, and the fact that they refuse to even talk about how much of a Nazi state Ukraine is basically edges into borderline Nazi apologetics territory.
Sorry but this video was an irredeemable clusterfuck and if they want to salvage any shred of their reputation they should immediately take it down and post an apology.
Bro unsubscribed from all of them lmao. Hakims latest vids have been good.
Meh. His latest video about the Romanian coup was underwhelming. I expected more. I didn't understand why he needed to portray Ceaușescu in such a bad light.
I'm the last person to say he was the best communist leader ever, but as someone actually from that country (which Hakim is not) i can tell you that he wasn't anywhere near as bad as he has been portrayed by the anti-communists for the past 30 years. He made a lot of mistakes (IMF loans? Really? Wtf was he thinking?!) but we also achieved a lot of great things under his leadership, and to his credit he didn't go along with the revisionist later Soviet (Brezhnev, Gorbachev, etc.) policies either, instead choosing to forge close relations with Kim Il Sung and the DPRK.
Aye, do you have any good sources on Ceausescu, as a Romanian?
No, i would have to do some more research myself before i can recommend something that covers the entire period of his leadership in Romania in a satisfactory way, but on the topic of the 1989 coup specifically you can find some pretty good articles on marxists.org published in Workers World in 1990:
Reactionary coup in Romania and General admits long-term coup planning
The first of these also goes into a bit of the history of socialist Romania and brings up some legitimate criticism of policy errors that were made by Nicolae Ceaușescu.
Aye, that's good for now...
Here's another good one, an article from the PSL doing a very good job giving a broad overview of the modern history of Romania:
Romania: 30 years removed from socialism
It's well sourced and i appreciate how balanced it is. They rightfully criticize Ceaușescu on points where he clearly deserves to be criticized (some of the foreign policy mistakes made by Romania were really egregious), but they also highlight the achievements of Romanian socialism during his era.
It might have been underwhelming, but not an outright disaster such as this one from JT. In the end, I would say there aren't that many good videos about Ceausescu in general, so no surprise there. A preferred way to learn about socialist Romania would be reading relevant literature, at least for now.
True. Ultimately i'm not mad at Hakim for that video, it was fine i guess, i was just sort of disappointed because it was a bit shallow.
What i am mad about is that none of the other two guys of the trio told JT that this Ukraine video is dogshit and that you can't discuss the Ukraine conflict without talking about its internal politics. No mention of the Maidan coup, the Nazification of Ukrainian society or the de-facto NATO-ization of its army from 2014 on? And no talk about how the Kiev regime was poised to invade the Donbass republics in February-March 2022? JT tried so hard to pander to the libs that he ended up saying nothing but lib shit.
Even trying to make it seem like Ukraine won some kind of big David vs Goliath victory in the beginning for not immediately folding is ridiculous when you take a look at the actual facts. Russia went in with less than 100k troops. Ukraine had a massive army at the start, several times bigger than the initial forces the Russians sent in. And armed to the teeth and trained by NATO for eight years. If anything Russia was the underdog at the start, numerically at least if not in terms of equipment.
To try and say that Russia wanted to and expected to overrun all of Ukraine in some "blitzkrieg" but Ukraine valiantly held on against all expectations is just parroting the pro-Ukraine narrative that was sold to the Western public in the entire first year. Reality is much more mundane than that. Russia wanted to shock the Kiev regime into coming to the negotiating table. And they did. They went to Istanbul and almost reached an agreement.
And then the idea that Ukraine could be doing much better and could be winning if only the evil Hamas hadn't diverted the West's attention, if only the West was more consequent about sending them weapons and shit, if only they didn't delay the military aid, bla, bla, bla. All the bullshit that the mainstream media has been spouting these past six months. Utter nonsense. It's embarrassing for communists to repeat those talking points. In reality the West simply doesn't have any more shit to give to Ukraine.
This wasn't some "stab in the back" by the West. It was always going to turn out this way in a war of attrition, which is why it was so stupid for Ukraine to insist on turning it into one by refusing to negotiate.
What i am mad about is that none of the other two guys of the trio told JT that this Ukraine video is dogshit and that you can’t discuss the Ukraine conflict without talking about its internal politics
That we don't know, I guess. Whatever they may tell him (or may have told already) - I doubt they will do it publicly or in the comment section, and also - he may as well tell them "my channel - my rules, I'm doing it". IDK about Hakim, but Yugo is probably not gonna say much - I remember him posting a copy of the two gymnasts meme on Twitter - "the US does this and that, all the dirty tricks - loses; China does nothing - wins", where he conveniently smeared the "Support the Nazis in Ukraine" piece with a gray line. Yugo received a TON of shit in the comment section for that - deservedly so.
I remember him posting a copy of the two gymnasts meme on Twitter - “the US does this and that, all the dirty tricks - loses; China does nothing - wins”, where he conveniently smeared the “Support the Nazis in Ukraine” piece with a gray line. Yugo received a TON of shit in the comment section for that - deservedly so
I remember seeing him post this meme and then others showing the original, revealing what he had chosen to cross out. It was incredibly weird and I am honestly so confused as to why he would do that. Did he respond to the backlash? Because I don’t remember if he did.
This Ukraine situation just seems like one they don’t want to touch with a ten foot pole and I don’t understand the motive. Why won’t they talk about it?
Figuring out one's motive is always difficult. Perhaps due to their material interests - being afraid of losing the audience. Perhaps because of good old ignorance. Perhaps due to fear of pushback or persecution. Perhaps they got co-opted, or there's something insidious about the three. Time will give us the clues, I guess
Perhaps due to their material interests - being afraid of losing the audience.
It has not escaped my notice that they have had more and more corporate sponsors on their videos lately. Once you go down that path you are simply forced to toe a certain line else your money tap will be turned off. And when you rely on monetizing your content to support yourself and your family you really have no choice.
JT recently ditched all sponsors. Not sure about the other two guys, I would've thought that with the Deprogram's success they wouldn't need to rely as much on sponsors, but I don't know much about how content creators make a living. Still, I really don't get it why they're so lib and silent on this topic
I think in this case the easiest answer is probably the most correct: they don’t say much, or anything at all, because it might result in a lot of vitriol. I understand being worried about being labeled as a propagandist for Russia (I had to face this at school when writing a paper about the Donbas) but thats why education is the best outlet. If you approach the topic from that angle without any polarizing language then it can be hard to call someone a Putin-simp or whatever.
I think it's a mistake to obsess so much about appearing "unbiased". There is no such thing. Everyone has to make a choice which side they stand on. Are you with the empire or against it? You should not be afraid of being called names, in fact it's an indication that you are doing something right. Let the facts speak for themselves. Pandering to liberal sensibilities does not make liberals to come closer to your side, you just move closer to theirs. Whatever the Deprogram think they are achieving, they are wrong. There are plenty of people who are receptive to the anti-imperialist message. The right is very successfully courting them and they are not afraid of being labeled Putin puppets. If leftists continue in this misguided strategy of appealing to liberals on their own terms that is a recipe for defeat.
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It is THAT disappointing, to be honest... I mean, I wouldn't outright unsubscribe from them - they still have good content, Hakim's videos for example are very well-written (though not without flaws ofc). But this one... What a way to absolutely nuke your credibility
I only just pressed play, and the intro text seems to have some relevant caveats.
For the sake of brevity, this video will focus solely on the state of war and not the internal politics of the involved parties, such as the influence of far-right elements in Ukraine or the reception of mass mobilization in Russia.
That is not a "caveat", it's an announcement that the video you are about to watch will be worthless as a serious analysis of the conflict.
Trying to talk about this conflict without discussing the internal politics of Ukraine is like talking about WW2 without discussing the "internal politics of Germany" at the time. Imagine making a video about WW2 and not mentioning the Nazis a single time. Absurd. This video was a joke.
100% agree, brilliant analogy
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: