this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2024
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Windows has been a thorn in my side for years. But ever since I started moved to Linux on my Laptop and swapping my professional software to a cross platform alternative, I've been dreaming on removing it from my SSD.

And as soon as I finish my last few projects, I can transition. (I want to do it now).

Trouble is which I danced my way across multiple amazing distros, I can't decide which one to land on since the one software I want to test, Davinci Resolve doesn't work on my Intel Powered Laptop. (curse you intel implementation of OpenCL).

So the opinions of those of you who've used Davinci Resolve, Unity/Godot, and/or FreeCAD. I want it to be stable with minimal down time on hardware with a AMD Ryzen 5 1600x and a RTX 3050. Here's the OS's I am looking at.

CentOS (alt Fedora)

  • Pro: Recommended by Davinci Resolve for the OS, has good package manager GUI that separates Applications and System Software (DNF Dragon), Good support for multiple Desktop Environments I like. Game Support is excellent and about a few months behind arch.
  • Con: When I last installed Fedora my OS Drives BTFS file system died a horrific and brutal death, losing all of my data. Can't have that. And I personally do not like DNF and how slow it makes updating and browsing packages.

Debain (alt Linux Mint DE)

  • Pro: The most stable OS I've used, with a wide range of software support both officially in the distros package manager, or from developers own website. I am most familiar with this OS and APT

  • Cons: Ancient packages which may cause issues with Davinci Resolve and Video Games. An over reliance on the terminal to fix simple problems (though this can be said for most linux distros). I personally don't like APT and how it manages the software.

EndevourOS (alt Manjaro)

  • Pro: The most up to date OS, great for games with the AUR giving support for a lot of software which isn't available on other distros.

  • Cons: Manjaro has died on me once, and is a hassle to setup right and keep up. EndevourOS has no Package Manager GUI, and is over reliant on the Terminal. Can't use pacman in a terminal the commands are confusing.

OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

  • Pro: Like Fedora but doesn't use DNF, good game support

  • Cons: Software isn't as well supported.

Edit: from the sounds of thing, and the advice from everyone. I think what I’ll do is an install order while testing distros (either in distro box or on a spare ssd) in the following order.

Debain/Mint DE -> OpenSUSE -> EndevourOS -> CentOS

This list is mostly due to stability and support for nvidia drivers.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This Lemmy BBQ has been the most entertaining yet... First off, now that the drunk uncles are finally showing up and the conversation has meandered away from OP's original question, I would like to say thank you OP - I was stoked to find your retro-gaming youtube. So good man!

The next bit of entertainment are the aforementioned drunk uncles scrapping it out on the lawn mid-post. Who has the bitchin'est Camaro? Nevermind that for a moment. Did Uncle Vinnie and Uncle Scotty say their FIREBIRDS are the bitchin'est? Fuck those guys! Linus from the Linus Tuner Garage out on the coast at 138 Richmond and Main said he busted the shit out of the Firebird dashboard that one time. Nah man, that was a Civic, but whatever, Firebirds blow. Pontiac is a shitty company anyway. Um, aren't they all GM. Yeah, but Firebirds have that shitty design on the hood and crap aftermarket support.

Why don't we all just sit around the Grill. Pick your steak, have a beer...

And thank fuck we aren't using Windows 11

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I didn’t expect the neighbour 3 doors down with their lifted pickup to show up. But it’s all fun, until someone mentions German cars and how unreliable they are when they start breaking down and how they’ve always been bad.

I got my answer eventually, but it’s sad the OpenSuse guys didn’t show. But that just shows how many people use their distro.

Also I am shocked anyone can find my channel, and happy you’ve enjoyed it. I made a video about ditching Windows and how 11 policies sucks, and would love to do more. But when I try the script becomes dull so I scrap it. Hoping there’s content when I eventually try this but Series 9 first.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I will check out the the Win 11 migration vid. Yeah, would definitely like to learn more about OpenSuse. Seems there is a lot of chatter about it on [email protected]
Perhaps will install it on something and tinker with it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you need DaVinci Resolve, just know that when you switch to Linux, you will lose the ability to read and render mp4 files. You will need to buy the full version to be able to do this on Linux.

I use my desktop primarily for video editing, 3D modeling, and a bit of gaming, and it's been running Pop!_OS since December with absolutely zero issues. The only annoyance has been the mp4 file thing in DaVinci.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I bought Resolve Studio when I switched over from Vegas. I've been planning this move for a while.

Handbrake if u are still having issues

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Pop_OS is a good choice for a gaming machine, it was perfect for like 4 years until I upgraded my 1080TI for a 7900XTX and the Mesa version was too old to run it at the time so I switched to Manjaro.

Personally I hate most Arch based distros with a burning passion. Like I have used arch wiki to install Arch at least 3 times after it had shit the bed during an update. Now if I need to open a terminal to install a distro I'm not installing it. I just wish the people maintaining Manjaro weren't so incompetent and also include common codecs (h264 and h265) in Mesa like every other distro.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Do not use Manjaro. It is a known trap. What you can do is install pamac, which is what Manjaro uses for GUI package management. It's been a hot minute since I've used Arch, so here's a tutorial:

https://itsfoss.com/install-pamac-arch-linux/

Alternatively you could look at Garuda, which is a solid Arch distro. You'll either love or hate the theme, but that's easy to change. It also comes with an interactive kernel by default (most distros use a regular kernel build, which works better for servers).

Whatever you do, please please please not Ubuntu. It's the lowest common denominator. Emphasis on "lowest". It was good in the past, but Canonical have really lost the plot.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by Manjaro being "a known trap"?

Edit: See my reply for some sources I found.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Not the above poster but Manjaro routinely pushes out broken packages, has had a number of issues with security (not renewing their tls certificates for their website) and is all around not stable. Arch is a predictable unstable, manjaro is an unpredictable unstable attempt at stable.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Found this file by user "arindas" on GitHub which seems to highlight a lot of the issues that I've been seeing. To summarize:

Package Management

Manjaro maintains a separate repository that is not in sync with Arch's main repositories which means Manjaro is not just Arch. To add to that, even Manjaro wiki states that it is not Arch!

Source: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Manjaro:_A_Different_Kind_of_Beast

Manjaro claims to be stable just by delaying packages for a week. This is not an approach a stable distribution would take at all!

Say that a package in the AUR depends on a library, say libxyz. And libxyz is in the main repos, not in the AUR. The package is updated so that it relies on the new features introduced in libxyz's version 1.1 however Manjaro delays packages so libxyz is still on 1.0 in Manjaro. If you update the package in Manjaro, it will break because Manjaro holds back packages. So the only way Manjaro can be stable is by literally forking all the Arch related repositories including the AUR and keeping them in sync.

However it is important to note that often these problems are isolated to single packages and not the system as a whole. Please read #25 (comment) for additional context.

Security

The Manjaro system updater used to have a serious security vulnerability [in 2018] which has fortunately been fixed.

Source: https://lists.manjaro.org/pipermail/manjaro-security/2018-August/000785.html

This is actually a core package, not an extra or community package. To quote the list,

I have discovered an issue with one of your core Manjaro packages, manjaro-system 20180716-1 and earlier. The issue allows a local attacker to execute a Denial of Service, Arbitrary Code Execution, and Privilege Escalation attack.

In an update, password less updates in pamac (Manjaro's AUR helper) were sneaked in and from the look in the issue made concerning this, the change was made to look like a "feature". This is a major security issue considering that packages in AUR are not checked by Arch Linux maintainers (and Manjaro does not maintain its own either). Some AUR packages were found to be malware in the past. So think about a casual user (Manjaro's target demographic are not really power users) installing a harmless-looking AUR package that could potentially mess up their system!

Source: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/applications/pamac/-/issues/719

The post also mentioned an issue where the Manjaro updater used bad practices when updating packages such as using the no-confirm flag. This appears to have been fixed from what I can tell.

Manjaro let their SSL certificates expire not once, not twice, not thrice, but four times! The first time [2015], they asked the users to use a private window and/or change the system time.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150409095421/https://manjaro.github.io/expired_SSL_certificate/

Changing the system time could have unintended consequences such as with cron jobs not running at the intended time. It's also not a best security practice to use an incognito window to bypass the SSL expiry alert. The correct solution is to not let the certificates expire in the first place, which is not difficult and is done by all secure websites.

The second time when the SSL certificates expired [2016], they did the same.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20160528135123/http://manjaro.github.io/SSL-Certificate-Expired/

This time the Manjaro developers didn't recommend changing the system time, but they still recommended creating an exception for the Manjaro website.

The third SSL certificate expiration was handled a little more sanely [2021].

Source? https://web.archive.org/web/20220102232338/https://forum.manjaro.org/t/expired-certificate-for-iso-download-on-download-manjaro-org/96441

The fourth time, HSTS was set but the website was still down [2022].

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20221013234550/https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/expiry-2022-08-17.png

Sending Unexpectedly Large Traffic volume to AUR

I think some of the dates and sources in this section were wrong, but I did my best to correct them.

On 2021-04-26, the AUR (Arch User Repository) faced a huge web traffic spike from pamac clients, caused by a bad version of pamac, which is the default Graphical Package Manager for Manjaro

Source: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/applications/pamac/-/issues/1017

Manjaro developers have developed thorough technical solutions to mitigate the huge traffic spike from pamac installations [2021-10-02]. They have outlined the steps taken here #25 (comment)

Source: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/applications/pamac/-/issues/1161

On 2021-10-14, Pamac was once again blocked by the AUR for shipping another version that flooded the AUR with requests. However the updated version itself was meant to mitigate problems.

Source: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/applications/pamac/-/issues/1135

Additional sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/wqzrpl/did_manjaro_just_forget_to_renew_the_ssl/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/q85t8n/deleted_by_user/

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Even if packages weren't broken, the fact that they make it easy to use the AUR is problematic because the AUR expects the latest packages from the Arch Repos. Often, AUR packages will break on Manjaro for that reason.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Can you provide a source about when and what package was broken?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

See my reply for some sources I found.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Personally, no, i havent used manjaro in years. However, it's frequently spoken about problem in the community so im sure someone else can help you. Or you could look up people talking about it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I'm asking because I've used Manjaro for the last 5 years without problems. I think a lot of arguements against Manjaro here are just based on "that's what I've read somewhere".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Fair enough. I used to use Manjaro and it broke, cannot remember why. I moved to ubuntu sometime later and I've never left. Some would say that makes me a bad linux user, I would say I use an operating system that gets out of my way and let's me use it. Use whatever tool gets the job done fastest!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Thanks for the context :)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

"dnf -C ..." may change your life!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

EndevourOS (alt Manjaro) Cons: Manjaro has died on me once, and is a hassle to setup right and keep up. EndevourOS has no Package Manager GUI, and is over reliant on the Terminal. Can’t use pacman in a terminal the commands are confusing.

I hear this and I highly recommend Bauh. Its a GUI package manager that supports Arch, AUR, Flatpak and Snaps. Will even automatically generate snapshots in Timeshift before you update. Super easy to use. I can't recommend it enough, I use it on all my desktops.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Is Buah better than pamac? It's got to be right? pamac looks great but actually sucks so bad I learned to use Pacman in the terminal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I've used Pamac, and I did like it but had to move off Manjaro for other reasons. Bauh is leagues better. Pamac is really cluttered UI whereas bauh is just search and install. No frills, pure utility.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

I use Bauh on my VM Endeavor install. Compared to using the terminal it's amazing, but it feels limited. For example I can't install multiple packages at once it I can with other distro's gui.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

sorry if i might repeat someones answer, i did not read everything.

it seems you want it for "work" that assumes that stability and maybe something like LTS is dort of the way to go. This also assumes older but stable packages. maybe better choose a distro that separates new features from bugfixes, this removes most of the hassle that comes with rolling release (like every single bugfix comes with two more new bugs, one removal/incompatible change of a feature that you relied on and at least one feature that cripples stability or performance whilst you cannot deactivate it... yet...)

likely there is at least some software you most likely want to update out of regular package repos, like i did for years with chromium, firefox and thunderbird using some shellscript that compared current version with latest remote to download and unpack it if needed.

however maybe some things NEED a newer system than you currently have, thus if you need such software, maybe consider to run something in VMs maybe using ssh and X11 forwarding (oh my, i still don't use/need wayland *haha)

as for me, i like to have some things shared anyway like my emails on an IMAP store accessible from my mobile devices and some files synced across devices using nextcloud. maybe think outside the box from the beginning. no arch-like OS gives you the stability that the already years-long-hung things like debian redhat/centos offer, but be aware that some OSes might suddenly change to rolling release (like centos i believe) or include rolling-release software made by third parties without respecting their own rules about unstable/testing/stable branches and thus might cripple their stability by such decisions. better stay up to date if what you update to really is what you want.

but for stability (like at work) there is nothing more practical than ancient packages that still get security fixes.

roundabout the last 15 years or more i only reinstalled my workstation or laptop for:

  • hardware problems, mostly aged disk like ssd wearlevel down (while recovery from backup or direct syncing is not reinstalling right?)
  • OS becomes EOL. thats it.

if you choose to run servers and services like imap and/or nextcloud, there is some gain in quickly switching the workstation without having to clone/copy everything but only place some configs there and you're done.

A multi-OS setup is more likely to cover "all" needs while tools like x2vnc exist and can be very handy then, i nearly forgot that i was working on two very different systems, when i had such a setup.

I would suggest to make recovery easy, maybe put everything on a raid1 and make sure you have on offsite and an offline backup with snapshots, so in case of something breaks you just need to replace hardware. thats the stability i want for the tools i work with at least.

if you want to use a rolling release OS for something work related i would suggest to make sure no one externally (their repo, package manager etc) could ever prevent you from reinstalling that exact version you had at that exact point in time (snapshots from repos install media etc). then put everything in something like ansible and try out that reapplying old snapshots is straight forward for you, then (and not earlier) i would suggest that those OSes are ok for something you consider to be as important as "work". i tried arch linux at a time when they already stopped supporting the old installer while the "new" installer wasn't yet ready at all for use, thus i never really got into longterm use of archlinux for something i rely on, bcause i could'nt even install the second machine with the then broken install procedure *haha

i believe one should consider to NOT tinker too much on the workstation. having to fix something you personally broke "before" beeing able to work on sth important is the opposite of awesome. better have a second machine instead, swappable harddrive or use VMs.

The exact OS is IMHO not important, i personally use devuan as it is not affected by some instability annoyances that are present in ubuntu and probably some more distros that use that same software. at work we monitor some of those bugs of that software. within ubuntu cause it creates extra hassle and we workaround those so its mostly just a buggy annoying thing visible in monitoring.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I was a happy Ubuntu user for more than a decade and I agree that it's a good beginners distro. I am now using Manjaro, which is also very good. In fact, Manjaro might even be more beginner friendly because it support Flatpak out of the box.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I used manjaro when I first started, but have had mixed success since then. Some criticisms here about shipping broken userspace (at least with their mobile OS): https://drewdevault.com/2022/08/18/PINE64-let-us-down.html

But, ubuntu is great for beginners, and i've always had good success with debian, although I'd point beginners to find an installer with non-free firmware until you know what's going on

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

If you are interested in something arch-based but like having guis for stuff, I highly recommend Garuda Linux. I've been using it for about a year on my everyday desktop for gaming and it's been great. I also have really liked fedora bazzite on my laptop for almost the same time period.

I'd stay away from manjaro, I wouldn't touch it again with a 10 foot pole. Every time I've tried to use it, it just breaks itself every 3-6 months. I know some people swear by it, but I just have to assume they either have extreme tier knowledge to prevent trouble before it starts, are so used to fixing problems they are blind to their time spent doing it, or they are just incredibly lucky.

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