this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2025
1 points (100.0% liked)

SneerClub

1083 readers
8 users here now

Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

See our twin at Reddit

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

So, lesswrong Yudkowskian orthodoxy is that any AGI without "alignment" will bootstrap to omnipotence, destroy all mankind, blah, blah, etc. However, there has been the large splinter heresy of accelerationists that want AGI as soon as possible and aren't worried about this at all (we still make fun of them because what they want would result in some cyberpunk dystopian shit in the process of trying to reach it). However, even the accelerationist don't want Chinese AGI, because insert standard sinophobic rhetoric about how they hate freedom and democracy or have world conquering ambitions or they simply lack the creativity, technical ability, or background knowledge (i.e. lesswrong screeds on alignment) to create an aligned AGI.

This is a long running trend in lesswrong writing I've recently noticed while hate-binging and catching up on the sneering I've missed (I had paid less attention to lesswrong over the past year up until Trump started making techno-fascist moves), so I've selected some illustrative posts and quotes for your sneering.

  • Good news, China actually has no chance at competing at AI (this was posted before deepseek was released). Well. they are technically right that China doesn't have the resources to compete in scaling LLMs to AGI because it isn't possible in the first place

China has neither the resources nor any interest in competing with the US in developing artificial general intelligence (AGI) primarily via scaling Large Language Models (LLMs).

  • The Situational Awareness Essays make sure to get their Yellow Peril fearmongering on! Because clearly China is the threat to freedom and the authoritarian power (pay no attention to the techbro techno-fascist)

In the race to AGI, the free world’s very survival will be at stake. Can we maintain our preeminence over the authoritarian powers?

  • More crap from the same author
  • There are some posts pushing back on having an AGI race with China, but not because they are correcting the sinophobia or the delusions LLMs are a path to AGI, but because it will potentially lead to an unaligned or improperly aligned AGI
  • And of course, AI 2027 features a race with China that either the US can win with a AGI slowdown (and an evil AGI puppeting China) or both lose to the AGI menance. Featuring "legions of CCP spies"

Given the “dangers” of the new model, OpenBrain “responsibly” elects not to release it publicly yet (in fact, they want to focus on internal AI R&D). Knowledge of Agent-2’s full capabilities is limited to an elite silo containing the immediate team, OpenBrain leadership and security, a few dozen US government officials, and the legions of CCP spies who have infiltrated OpenBrain for years.

  • Someone asks the question directly Why Should I Assume CCP AGI is Worse Than USG AGI?. Judging by upvoted comments, lesswrong orthodoxy of all AGI leads to doom is the most common opinion, and a few comments even point out the hypocrisy of promoting fear of Chinese AGI while saying the US should race for AGI to achieve global dominance, but there are still plenty of Red Scare/Yellow Peril comments

Systemic opacity, state-driven censorship, and state control of the media means AGI development under direct or indirect CCP control would probably be less transparent than in the US, and the world may be less likely to learn about warning shots, wrongheaded decisions, reckless behaviour, etc. True, there was the Manhattan Project, but that was quite long ago; recent examples like the CCP's suppression of information related to the origins of COVID feel more salient and relevant.

top 12 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 hours ago

"The CCP is worse than Hitler because at least Hitler was elected" is... a take

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MKS4tJqLWmRXgXzgY/why-should-i-assume-ccp-agi-is-worse-than-usg-agi-1?commentId=wLB2LFnJnHA8cJWuC

Gonna put that down to really really bad historical knowledge

[–] [email protected] 0 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

recent examples like the CCP’s suppression of information related to the origins of COVID feel more salient and relevant.

...is that an oblique 'lab leak' reference? Pay no attention to how its proponents overlap extensively with the politicians, pundits and institutions that told us (rather, lied to us) Iraq had WMDs!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 18 hours ago

You betcha it is. The lab leak theory (with added fear over gain of function research analogized with AGI research) conspiracy mongering is a popular "viewpoint" on lesswrong, aided, as typical, by the misapplication of bayes theorem, and dunning-kruger misreading of the "evidence".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

However, even the accelerationist don’t want Chinese AGI, because insert standard sinophobic rhetoric about how they hate freedom and democracy or have world conquering ambitions or they simply lack the creativity, technical ability, or background knowledge (i.e. lesswrong screeds on alignment) to create an aligned AGI.

I thought in modern US phrenology East Asians were smart? So they just haven't been reached by the holy scripture/ Harry Potter fanfic?

Now I got curious, has there been any attempts of spreading EA to China, and if so how did it go?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 hours ago

I thought in modern US phrenology East Asians were smart?

Ow boy, yeah, the scientific racists usually admit the asian people are smart (or do better than the west on IQ tests) but that is usually followed up with some asspull on how white people still are better. Stuff like they are ~~genetically~~ inherently collectivist, lack creativity, etc etc. It is always funny to see IQ-anon people go 'well western white still best' while being really into race an IQ. (oddly rarely do they seem to mention that 'it could just be that because higher IQ is seen as a source of pride in the west, Asian countries/China simply lie about the IQ scores', as that would introduce a heretical thought about the sanctity of IQ testing). But yes, this is a very common pattern to see them go 'acthually Asians still bad'.

No idea on the rest. Sorry I don't speak their languages, so can't really tell.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 16 hours ago

Surely the most rational thing to do would be for the Rationalist sphere at large to retreat into their Ratcaves and spend a few years translating the sequences into Mandarin, right?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I guess anti-communist fears and libertarian bias outweighs their fetishization of East Asians when it comes to the CCP?

I haven't seen any articles on the EA forums about spreading to China... China does have billionaires and philanthropists, but, judging by Jack Ma's example, when they start talking big about altering society (in ways that just so happen to benefit the billionaires), they get to take a vacation from the public eye for a few months... so that might get in the way of EA billionaire activism?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 hours ago

I think I was turned from “China probably bad” to “China might be good” when a tankie subreddit pointed out that China actually tries to rein in the billionaires and collect taxes.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I think this article fits here as how this fear mongering reaches government: https://futurism.com/google-ceo-congress-electricity-ai-superintelligence

Erik Schmidt tells the US government that unfathomable amounts of power need to be spun up ASAP because if the US doesn't make robot god first then:

If China comes to superintelligence first, it changes the dynamic of power globally, in ways that we have no way of understanding or predicting

Dedicating the US's entire economic output to scaling corporate LLMs and filling the air with smog would at least have somewhat predictable consequences I suppose.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

Yep. They've already used doomerism to drive LLM hype, this fearmonering of China is just an extension of that, but worse yet, it is something both the doomers and accelerationists can (mostly) agree on (although the doomers are always quick to emphasize the real threat it the AGI) and it is a lot more legible to existing war hawk "thinking".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

What dedication to the grift. We are real-time seeing the downfall of US influence due to the trade war shit and this MF is saying the solution is “LLMs need more ‘lectrolytes”? This world is done for.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 12 hours ago

ChatGPT's got what intelligence craves... it's got neurons