this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

(page 10) 50 comments
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[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago (14 children)

Before you decide to go back to Google or close your account, keep in mind that Proton became a non profit organization with the main mission of protecting your privacy. And as a non profit, they're not trying to profit off of you in any way.

Going back to Google is the worst solution you can use. Remember that Google donated $1 million to Trump's inauguration fund. Google also doesn't care about your privacy. On the contrary, they're selling your data and using it against you.

While the Proton CEO may be a nut case, he's only praising the choice that Trump made as the candidate for the antitrust department. While that's understandably stupid since I don't believe Trump is going up stick up for the little guy now that he's got Musk and Zuck in his pocket, at least he didn't actively donated and enabled Trump either personally or through his platform and spread misinformation.

Think about it.

At least with proton, the fact that you're different, that you're 2SLGBTQ+, is safe. Or at least substantially safer than Google.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Whatever you choose, remember that ease of migration is important. So for email buy your own domain name and use a service like mailbox.org that allows custom domains and full IMAP access.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Ive been using proton for a little more than a year now and I think that the service is one of the best out there. That, and their privacy guides in their blog are great as well. I think abandoning ship this early isn't really a need. I've abondonded things like Plex for jellyfin due to Plex starting to feel very commerical. As others have pointed out, the governing of the company may keep one individuals views from interfering with the products. With that said, if your beliefs swing opposite, i see how it can leave a bad taste and make it worth keeping an eye on the direction of the company.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Mullvad is supposed to be a safe and secure VPN.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Unfortunately not a mail or storage provider.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

So long, and thanks for all the fish

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (7 children)

is tuta the new pick for custom domain email?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

i wanted to move my google stuff to Proton this year as a Backup for my self hosted stuff. Shame, seems like I need to put a little more time into managing my self hosted stuff

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I was looking at Tresorit as a potential cloud option. I mean, not becausw of the Andy Yen stupid tweets debacle, its because Proton's mobile app is utter garbage, can't even download an entire folder when almost every other cloud provider can.

There are also Sync.com and Icecloud but I didn't like those. Sync.com's app looks outdated af, Icecloud makes extraordinary claims like how AES is built by the NSA and therefore is somehow "insecure" so they use a different algorithm. So Tresorit seems like the only one left that does encryption by default. (Mega's predecessor was shut down before, so I don't trust them for file longevity).

Anyone else got any other suggestions for cloud storage providers?

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[–] [email protected] 105 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (33 children)

Misinformation. OP is advocating that you shoot yourself in the foot.

The CEO said something silly on Twitter which revealed either that (a) he shares an exceedingly banal opinion with literally half of America or (b) he's not above a bit of preemptive sycophancy to advance his (positive) anti-trust agenda.

There's nothing particularly scandalous in the offending tweet:

  • Implying that the Democrats are now "the party of big business" is arguably true (and very boring)
  • Implying that the Republicans now "stand for the little guys" is dumb but also arguably true, unfortunately - the working classes swung to Trump in the recent election while the Democrats are fast becoming a party of high-earning elites (which is why they lost)
  • Saying that the antitrust actions began under Trump I is, well, true

Proton is not owned Zuck-like by its CEO. It's controlled by a foundation with other stakeholders on the board, including the inventor of the Web himself. In its niche it is still by far the best option. Ditching it for a nebulous non-existent alternative because the CEO expressed a dumb and extremely commonplace opinion is just silly and self-defeating.

PS: to be clear, OP is peddling misinformation because it's not true that "Proton took the stance" of anything. It's the personal opinion of the CEO that's at issue. It's a major distinction. I find it disappointing that people interested in privacy would have such little respect for a private individual's right to have their own thoughts.

PPS: to be extra clear, my comments are about the post above, not stuff that people are reading elsewhere. But the substance stands. See discussion for detail.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (15 children)
  1. It isn't misinformation.

  2. Someone like this board member being a traitor to his species isn't covered by "opinion". No normalizing nazis. It's such a low bar. He couldn't clear it.

  3. He blasted his treachery over the public airwaves. His privacy isn't being violated.

This whole comment feels like an exercise in using all the best words to miss the point. We know, as does this probably-lying board member, that Republicans are only going to go more authoritarian, and the only reason they would pretend to care about big tech abuses is to grab the steering wheel from them to commit far worse abuses. No company that gets into bed with traitors is going to become the new center of my digital life.

Tuta for email, syncthing for photos bc I'm not self-hosting, mullvad for VPN.

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[–] [email protected] 107 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I love how you’re claiming misinformation while posting misinformation. It’s not the CEO, it’s a board member. That said, the company also officially posted these ideas on their Bluesky account.

This isn’t a “CEO” expressing a belief, it’s the board, and now the official company line.

I’m not disagreeing with their post particularly on corporate dems, but this is a company and not a persons sole belief.

Also, if dems are the party of big business then why are all these big businesses donating to Trump? Does that just mean republicans are the party of even bigger business?

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Their bullet points are spin-doctoring.

Also the comment got a few dozen upvotes almost immediately. Suspicious.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not American, but there is this regarding the third point: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/comment/m7b1wib/

Any thoughts here?

To me this whole demonizing proton ceo thing seems a bit overblown. Sucking up is actually pathetic and funny

[–] [email protected] 206 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I largely agree with what you’re saying, except the official Proton Mastadon account doubled down on that personal opinion. That seems pretty clear that it’s endorsed not just by that one individual on the board.

[–] [email protected] 81 points 2 days ago (10 children)
[–] [email protected] 51 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Just puked a little after reading that.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (8 children)

My personal recommendations:

https://uberspace.de/

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: About-Page
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: Based on solidarity, but recommend minimum is 5 € per month

https://www.hostsharing.net/

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: well, you own part of hostsharing if you use it (collective-ownership)
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: 64 € onetime payment + 10 € per month (cooperative)

Other recommendations:

  • mailbox.org, systemli.org, riseup.net, posteo.de (as far as I know all of them are located in Germany)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Tuta.com is similar to Proton Mail + Calendar.

  • Location: Germany

  • Governance: Private GmbH (German corporation, similar to an American LLC)

  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: Better than Proton IMHO. All their apps are open source and available on F-Droid. They encrypt email headers (unlike Proton, who are weaselly about this in their marketing materials).

  • User Experience: Ehhhh...6? I'm not in the best position to compare because I do not have a premium plan, so I am not able to examine features like inbox rules/filters. Much like Proton, it doesn't support full-text email search unless you have it cache your entire mailbox locally (either via the web site or app). They do not support POP or IMAP, but do offer their own desktop and mobile apps.

  • Pricing: €3/month for 20GB, €8/month for 500GB. https://tuta.com/pricing

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

Yep, I've been using Tuta for email for years now, just the free version.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago

God damnit I literally just got Proton going like 4 days ago.

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