this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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Chuckles, "Yep, only American manufacturers should be allowed to cheaply build cars in Mexico and export them to the US."
The issue is they're wanting to sell $30,000 cars for $15,000 (with the rest paid for by the Chinese government) which sounds great as a consumer until all the other manufacturers exit the market due to the impossibility of competing with those subsidies. Once they eliminate the competition, they'll start selling these $30,000 cars for $50,000+ because "fuck you who else are you going to buy from?" That's not to say the current crop of manufacturers aren't fucking us over too but this isn't how you eliminate that problem. You're just trading one bully who steals your lunch money for another.
[Citation needed]
China ended its national level domestic EV subsidies in 2022 so it makes very little sense to subsidize foreign buyers for 50% of the cost of a vehicle while cutting subsidies for domestic consumption which is much more economically and socially advantageous.
You admitted yourself the harm is already happening; just with American companies.
At the very worst, we are fucked either way.
The alternative is, maybe the Chinese government doesn’t fuck us over. So at least we have a chance with them.
Honestly, that leaves me wondering why you care other than the “scheming asiatic” angle to this
You say that like US car manufacturers would last a week without government subsidies.
One country subsidizing an industry while imposing tarrifs on another country for subsizing that same industry is literally an actionble dispute in the WTO so it is very much an actual rebuttal.
Try defending a WTO subsidies dispute with "Whataboutism!" And see how that goes.
True, but banning them seems like using a nuke to deal with a fly, just a bit overkill. I don't expect the Chinese to play fair, but it seems that just saying that the rules only apply to American companies seems wrong and lazy.
Yeah I don't think outright bans are much of a solution either. Tariffs would usually apply to a situation like this but it seems they can bypass those by building in and shipping from Mexico.
True, I'm not sure what the solution is, but saying the rules only apply to certain players rubs me the wrong way. And that's not even getting started on how much of the threat comes from US automakers refusal to produce electric cars until they were staring down a gun, plus how much they want to sell large expensive vehicles so they get nice large paychecks. Sure, China could and prolly is subsidizing their electric car industry, but we could do that too, in a way we already are with the tax credit only applying to American made vehicles.
Well, you can buy from another China's auto company or other country's car company. Or maybe it will make your country allocate budget from something big and destructive to the world and reallocate them to the failing auto industry?
Obviously not true
But if it was: skill issue, communists stay winning,
better at capitalism than capitalists
You think giving away ChatGPT for free isn’t distorting a market ?
Oh come on. The US has super conservative and protectionist policies.
The fact is that both CATL and BYD have the upper edge in battery technology. And that a lot of Chinese car manufacturers have very good and competitive products.
European car brands are really struggling to transition to the future and still can't figure out their software and technology. They are run by old guys who are still trying to save the ICEs as this technology is a gatekeeper of their businesses.
do you have any sources for that? because byd is selling their cars elsewhere in the world for 30k-50k usd new, similar to competing american brands. The only thing I can find is a tax incentive that's less than the tax credit you can get in the us.
https://electrek.co/2024/02/19/byd-launches-15k-qin-plus-ev-kicking-off-price-war-gas-cars/
https://electrek.co/2023/05/01/gms-wuling-bingo-ev-lures-china-buyers-sub-10k-price-fun-features/
So basically it's bad because they might do capitalism
Interesting that you chose to use 'capitalism' as a pejorative while simultaneously trying to defend negative aspects of it.
I'm pointing out that your problem with this is the problem you should have with the entire wildly destructive and corrupt US auto industry, which is doing the thing you're afraid chinese car makers might one day do. I know it's a hard thing for people poisoned by nationalism to apply a standard uniformly, but do try.
You sound like a 1950s red scare boomer right now, or a medieval serf accusing another medieval serf of being a spy for the rival kingdom while we're both covered in shit in a potato field. It's just so sad.
Like a reverse Truman show, where you live in real life but have convinced yourself that vast swathes of people are paid actors.
As the decline of capitalist countries continues and their socialist counterparts continue to outpace them, this comforting nationalist delusion will take more and more of your energy to maintain, and will probably have deleterious effects on your mental health and sense of reality. For your own sake, and the sake of the people you believe it's okay to disrespect in service of the fiction of nationhood, you should let go of it sooner rather than later.
Also it's CPC.
Sure thing, buddy. You're the only one bringing up communism and trying to act like this is some east versus west dick measuring contest. You can't even make a coherent argument about why you think this is a good thing and instead go straight for whataboutism and ad hominem attacks.
Lol wut dude
You're the only one who brought up communism, like right now and in your right off the bat east-west scaremongering
Is someone being haunted by a spectre?
So you're just like, the dumbest guy alive huh?
Byd cars are better and cheaper and I'd like to buy one like many people in Europe have chosen to do but the nationalist freaks that run this country and the rubes that eat up their propaganda are preventing me from doing that. Honda dominated in the 70s and 80s because they made something people wanted, liberals are terrified that China will do the same thing.
How can you claim they're better and cheaper if you have zero access to them because of whatever "nationalist freak" that's running your country? What specifically makes them better and how to they make them better than every other manufacturer while still being able to sell them cheaper?
Japanese cars still dominate because people still want them more than any other car. 8 of the 10 best selling cars in the world are from Japanese manufacturers.
I'm sure explaining how the internet works and the manufacturing and financials of a Chinese car company will get you to take off your blinders and won't be a total waste of time, weird though how the 2022 bolt new was 15000 dollars cheaper than the 2020 model new, I guess it just got real cheap to build a bigger car with a bigger battery and a better infotainment system.