this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children)

we've been pumping money into regime change in Ukraine since the early 90s. NED (National Endowment for Democracy) used to show the dollar figures and specific organizations on their website but deleted that information a while back. You can still find it with Wayback Machine

Essentially we've been funding and supporting organizations in Ukraine under the guise of "pro-Democracy™" "pro-Liberty™" with the goal of supporting any potential chances for regime change. Some of those organizations just happen to be associated with the far-right groups that were part of the initial government that was unconstitutionally appointed In 2014 after Euromaidan- a series of violent protests that forced the pro-Russian president to flee the country.

tldr: we've been destabilizing Ukraine for a long time. the idea was to peel off Ukraine from Russia's orbit and throw it into the US orbit. And it worked. Which is why Russia invaded in 2014

Note before I get the inevitable Russian shill comments - I'm not justifying any aggressive invasion by Russia. I'm saying this is a proxy war - a game of tug of war between two larger powers. Neither care in the slightest about what actually happens to the Ukrainians.

They will not recover from this war for a hundred years. But Lockheed Martin stock will perform nicely

edit: and remember this comment in 15 years. people will be talking as if what I'm saying is obvious. but right now the propaganda is strong- just like in 2003 with invasion of Iraq

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Note before I get the inevitable Russian shill comments - I’m not justifying any aggressive invasion by Russia.

No, you're just parroting their BS propaganda.

Some of those organizations just happen to be associated with the far-right groups that were part of the initial government that was unconstitutionally appointed In 2014 after Euromaidan- a series of violent protests that forced the pro-Russian president to flee the country.

The constitutionality of the confusing as fuck situation is quite irrelevant (the Rada had the power to do what it did, it did have the votes, but procedure was not necessarily followed properly when disposing of the AWOL president) because there were new elections right after, healing any hiccup. Elections which tanked the results of those far-right parties which weren't exactly impressive in the first place.

Elections which solved a popular uprising caused by the president to renege on the country's path to EU accession. That was the sparking point for the protests, which at that point could've been solved without an erm special electoral operation, but the Russian puppet ordered Berkut to fire on protestors, which those didn't appreciate and consequently failed to calm down and disperse.

After said puppet went AWOL and got disposed and the interim government did nothing much really but organise elections, Poroshenko got elected (yay, another oligarch, as is tradition), trying to solve Russia's invasion (the green men one) militarily. Zelensky pushed him out of office in the next elections, on a peace ticket, as a Russian native speaker... and then Russia invaded even more. They fucking hit Kiev. The Ukrainian army had re-grouped extensively after the little green men operation, the SBU had identified and neutralised gazillions of Russian operatives, either the FSB didn't notice or they didn't want to tell Putin what he didn't want to hear. The rest is taxi memes.

If that -- those totally irrelevant right sector fucks -- is the US's influence in Ukraine then it truly is pitiful. Compare the influence of glorious Europe: Ukraine actually wants to join up!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Lot of text to say "yes it was unconstitutional"

It's impossible to sugar coat what Euromaidan was. Just like Azov, it slowly gets whitewashed because of propaganda. But at its core, it was a series of protests sparked by the Ukrainian far-right that led to an escalating ladder of violence that resulted in a coup. The day after the new government was appointed, it immediately bent the knee to the CIA. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

If that – those totally irrelevant right sector fucks – is the US’s influence in Ukraine then it truly is pitiful. Compare the influence of glorious Europe: Ukraine actually wants to join up!

This war, for all intents and purposes, is a proxy war between US and Russia. US decides Ukrainian policy. US is the largest funder of this war. US gets to appoint Ukrainian politicians https://www.reuters.com/article/world/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-us-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601K/

US has a long history of meddling in Ukraine https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/11/covert-operation-ukrainian-independence-haunts-cia-00029968

No, you’re just parroting their BS propaganda.

just because I refuse to drink one side's kool aid does not mean I drink the other side's. i'm an individual with imperfect knowledge doing my best to reach the closest thing to truth i can with the information i have available. you can attack me all you want, but i don't really see how you addressed anything in your comment except : "the unconstitutional coup was justified because of popular support and so it doesn't matter that it was illegal & you denounce the idea that the US has influence in Ukraine"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

US gets to appoint Ukrainian politicians [...]

LMFAO so if, say, Scholz says to Macron "I don't think Trump should be US president, he's not suitable, Harris is a much better option" then it necessarily follows that the EU is controlling US politics.

i’m an individual with imperfect knowledge doing my best to reach the closest thing to truth i can with the information i have available

No you aren't, or you wouldn't just take those "US appoints Ukrainian politicians" talking points at face value. You'd use your own head and assess for yourself what that tape means.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

You’d use your own head and assess for yourself what that tape means.

it's a coincidence the guy they decided on just happened to be the guy who ended up being Prime Minister for two terms, right?

like i said in my original comment. it's an interesting phenomenon. if you were to look in the past, it's very easy to convince people the US acted covertly in many ways that were clearly imperialist. for example in Guatemala or Cuba or Iraq. It's hard to find someone trying to defend US actions in these cases. But as it's happening that goes out the window because propaganda has a powerful hold on emotion

Let's take a step back and let me ask you a question. Please answer instead of diverting or otherwise trying to deflect

Question is: Do you believe money holds influence in US election and do you think people with money actively try and influence elections?

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