this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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Blåhaj Lemmy is a Lemmy instance attached to blahaj.zone. This is a group for questions or discussions relevant to either instance.

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Hexbear Discussion Round 2 (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

I figured since their admin has asked them to stop participating over here it may be worthwhile to get a new discussion going that is primarily blahaj. I'm almost certain they'll still be upvoting so keep that in mind as that may skew things. Worthwhile to check in from instances that have already defederated them. The previous thread definitely left a bad taste in my mouth but what do y'all think?

Old thread can be found here


EDIT: With regards to the post on new federation guidelines here: https://hexbear.net/post/352119

The current top comment is:

Every instance that has talked shit and got dogpiled should be thanking us for breathing some life into their dead and boring ass websites.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

I will summarize my views that I left on the first thread:

  • While I do not agree with mandatory pronoun marking, or with needing to have one's neopronouns approved, the number of Hexbear users with neopronouns in their names indicates that the instance is extremely pro-trans and inclusive of all non-binary identities.
  • Ada has very poorly handled the response to her "people of NATO" statement in a way that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth regarding the administration of Blåhaj Lemmy. I have noticed that a comment left by a Hexbear user saying "death to Nazis and transphobes" is gone now as well, which if this was an act of a Blåhaj Lemmy administrator, further reflects poorly on Blåhaj Lemmy's administration.
  • For as much as I've enjoyed some of Hexbear's communities, such as [email protected], Hexbear users have often been weird, annoying, or wrong as well. However, I do not think that being weird, annoying, and wrong is cause for defederation, and would prefer that defederation be reserved for illegal content and neo-Nazis, lest we create a culture that is hegemonic in its beliefs and values.
  • The ideal solution is for individual users to be able to block Hexbear, but this appears to only be possible using uBlock Origin and half-possible with one of the mobile clients for Lemmy. Until this becomes a feature of Lemmy itself, I believe that Hexbear should be defederated if this is the will of a majority of Blåhaj Lemmy users.

I will also state that I am biased in my views due to the fact that I am an anarchist who doesn't use the word "tankie", I am very strongly opposed to respectability/civility politics, and I am very careful about SIFTing every bit of news that appears on my feed. For these reasons, my experiences with Hexbear and its users will be markedly different from those with differing views or social media practices, a number of whom report experiencing "harassment, brigading, disinformation, and bad faith arguments". I am sure that these people are being honest, but I can only speak from my own experience.

Lastly, I would like to note that I read that a number of Hexbear users were opposed to federation to begin with, due to the potential disruption this could be for the site's culture, and as Hexbear's culture (e.g. emojis, which improperly scale on other instances) are taken to other sites. It is therefore my conjecture that some fraction of Hexbear users may be intentionally going against their admins' words and being annoying on other instances specifically in order to get Hexbear defederated. I do not fully understand Hexbear's culture or site politics, so I would prefer to hear from Hexbear users on this matter: since this thread is local-only, Hexbear users may wish to send me a DM explaining the controversy on their site regarding federation, and if my conjecture has any merit.

I may edit this comment with other thoughts as they come to me.

Edit: I received this DM from a Hexbear user regarding federation politics on the site. I am sharing this with his permission. I will create an audio version upon request.

Relevant links in the DM:

@[email protected] also sent me a message reading, "[...] Also, it looks like our admins have posted new rules concerning federated conduct. Some people are being grouchy about it, but I do think moderation is going to improve: https://hexbear.net/post/352119?scrollToComments=false"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Ada has very poorly handled the response to her "people of NATO" statement in a way that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth regarding the administration of Blåhaj Lemmy

What I was trying to say is that wishing death on people is not acceptable, but wishing for the downfall of organisations is perfectly acceptable.

If that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, I don't know what to tell you.

And if the bad taste in your mouth was because you thought I was saying something else, or that I was trying to make some sort of implicit comparison to terms like "people of colour", then hopefully this clarifies things, because it wasn't any of that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

or that I was trying to make some sort of implicit comparison to terms like “people of colour”, [...]

Honestly that just seems like people reading too much into things, even though "people of NATO" is still a really unusual and imprecise phrasing. If English is your second language and it was sort of a heat-of-the-moment edit, then phrasing things oddly is understandable, and it's really bad that people were assuming ill intent just because of unusual phrasing.

Anyways, sorry if I've been too impolite and added too much to your stress, you do good work overall (and if this seems like groveling, sorry about that, too) — I'm not going to change my views, but it's also probably best not to keep prodding at such differences, in your den. I wasn't aware of this unwritten rule when I signed up and I'll make sure to respect it regardless of how I feel about it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Honestly that just seems like people reading too much into things

That's what this whole thing has been, beginning to end. Sometimes deliberately so.

It's not ok to wish death on people. It is ok to wish for the downfall of oppressive organisations. Some people believe the latter is only achievable through the former, and use "motte and bailey" ambiguity to say the latter but mean the former.

That line is the point of disagreement, and because I do disagree, people used the often deliberate ambiguity to paint me as ignorant.

The truth is, it doesn't matter what I said, because that ambiguity (by design) makes it impossible to navigate without meaning getting lost. And because of the nature of hexbear, as soon as I was seen as even implicitly "defending NATO", it was open season

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s not ok to wish death on people.

Would you like me to try to explain again why I disagree, or should I just tuck my arms and pout about it?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I get why you and others disagree. What I don't understand is why so many people insist that I have to be ok with wishing death on really bad people too, or otherwise I deserve the shit that happened in that other thread.

It seems like a really strange point to turn on someone over...

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