this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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129
How do you make someone understand that being drafted by force and ordered to invade another country is not a good thing? (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
232 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

As title, if you have post or link any useful resource you have

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

I've read the contents of your link and I can see how one would fall for these arguments. But I can already point to a couple flaws:

It doesn't matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade. Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn't matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

Third, this didn't start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn't just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (9 children)

Seems like there are a couple of flaws in your own narrative there.

It doesn’t matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade.

Russia did exercise this choice for whole eight years. That's what Minsk agreements were about, and now prominent western officials have come out and admitted on record that the goal of the agreements was in fact to give more time for Ukraine to arm itself.

Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn’t matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

Third, this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn’t just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution. I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

I'm not going to read the whole minutes. Can you quote please what you are referring to?

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

This seems to be whataboutism. Do you have any evidence for the US causing the euromaidan and subsequent revolution? Seems to me like the people were fed up with the shit that ol' Viktor was peddling.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution.

Did anyone from the West ever conquer anything that belonged to Russia? Russia answered with violence for nothing. Notice how there's a string of attacks on territories that weren't actually Russia's in recent history.

 I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

Classic distraction scheme. Attacking the person instead of the point. Not even sure why I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and engaged with you.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

summed up: well i dont read shit so you're gonna have to spoonfeed it to me so i can spit it out in your face without even tasting it

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