this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2024
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I voted you down because I think you are making a few errors here:
Not every Palestinian is Hamas. Hamas is a genocidal organization that wishes it could kill every Israeli, including civilians, but not every Palestinian believes in that. And not every Israeli agrees with IDF's genocide, although a disappointingly high proportion of them do.
IDF is clearly more successful in their genocide of Palestinians than Hamas is in their attempted genocide of Israelis.
Even if Hamas and IDF both were equal, a lot of the English-speaking Internet (including many Lemmings here) are Americans, and pay American taxes, and therefore have an obligation to stop the genocide funded by our taxes, through money and weapons the US government sends to Israel. Even if both sides were equally bad, we (I and other Americans) recognize the need to stop Israel, but have no obligation to stop Hamas because we aren't sending them the weapons in the first place.
Hamas is pretty careful to differentiate Jewish people, some of whom have lived in Palestine for millennia, and the Zionist project, which requires the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
Ah, so what happened on October 7th?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Or is what happened okay because only 'Zionists' were killed?
Yes, attacking armed settlers, each of which is a trained soldier when you're breaking out of a concentration camp is 100% OK.
You'd be crying for the poor german civilians killed during the Warsaw uprising. No questioning what they were doing around the warsaw ghetto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre
You are a monster, these where innocent people that were massacred and r*ped by HAMAS.
And the best response is that "It was actually the Jews, not HAMAS, that killed all those people" is pathetic.
It was between Hamas and the military objective. Israeli helicopters fired indiscriminately on the festival-goers so there's no high-ground here.
But yeah if you attend a music festival outside a concentration camp, you deserve what you get. In a just world, Zone Of Interest ends with the happy families outside the camp getting massacred by its inhabitants.
Thank you for being one if the few that rip into Hamas at the same time as calling Israel out. I disagree on downvoting them as they contributed to the conversation, but points don't matter.
On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don't think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas - its just how we talk.
America isn't becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country - the Republicans are and they held the power. But we don't say that, we just say America is turning to shit. China doesn't have aggressive expansionist goals, the CCP does. Russia isn't a warmongering state, Putin and his running party are.
"We're liberating the Palestinian people from Hamas" is a zionist talking point. Learn to recognize that pattern when it's used to justify action against other countries; eg sanctions against Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, which primarily hurt the people.
Most of the other Palestinian parties, some of which have literal had gun battles with Hamas have started working with them since Oct 7. The PLFP knows more about what's good for the future of the Palestinian people than either of us, and they're willing to work with Hamas.
I mean it kinda always has been. The government has always been much more reactionary than the people, but it's always been a puritan country with legalized corruption, going as far back as Washington passing taxes to give his distilleries competitive advantage. I can link you some free history books on America, is there any time period that interests you?
The CPC has overwhelming support from the population, it does a better job of representing the people than most western democracies, evidenced by greatest increase in living standards for a large country in history. Do you think it's more likely the people have aggressive expansionist goals, or that you have an incomplete understanding?
Russia is a bourgeoisie democracy, if Putin and his party didn't do what the Russian bourgeoisie wanted, they'd put someone else in power. The state is warmongering, the people aren't.
See, I never said anything about liberation, support or justification, only that Palestine is not Hamas, yet I've been downvoted to crap. You are right on the patterns from those who wish to justify - did you also consider the patterns of "if you're not with us you're the enemy" and "everyone is against us"?
Hamas has been defined as a terrorist organization for years, not sure where Israel is currently sitting (as recognized by intl bodies). Regarding this conflict, I just hope that everyone on both sides acting beyond the accepted scope are held accountable by intl courts or their own people.
Studied that one from an intl relations perspective. Parts of them I 100% agree with you, however believe these parts have blocked the underlying drives to reform. No thanks on history - im studying intl relations and armed conflict and already got ~100 readings this semester.
I would argue the source material. Covid showed us that many countries would happily lie on their own reports to present a better picture to the intl community - China especially. Think like religion in the states - they may have a major religious population but how many keep the beliefs for fear of alienating themselves, indoctrination or because its what you're meant to do?
Sorry, bad choice of words. The country Russia and its people aren't, the state and govt are.
I think if you're going to criticize Hamas you also need to point out that their extremist views were funded by the state of Isreal not only to create the conditions to justify their genocide but also to push out moderate leadership within Palestine.
Because God forbid anyone in this conflict be held responsible for their own actions, rather than blaming everything on who came before them.
You know what, maybe don't steal people's land and murder them and they won't have to defend themselves?
Quick question- going back as far as we currently know - is the land you are living on right now stolen from someone?