this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
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I can understand that men are scared of this, but it’s no reason to propagandize about the issue. While the boys in this thread circlejerk their victimization, women are being raped as I type this, probably women you know. They won’t tell you thos because they know the men in their lives are much more worried about a false accusation - which are so rare and usually lead nowhere.
brave up, boys. women need us to be brave and to accept the reality they live every day of their lives.
"Some of you will be wrongly convicted, but that's a risk I'm willing to take." shouldn't be the goal my dude. You've gotta try harder. Don't just believe women. Believe evidence. Believe facts. Leave hearsay out of it. This is not a difficult concept.
You’re strawmanning my argument here. false convictions for murder also happen.. should we all be worried about false accusations of murder now too?
Is there a reason you’re so afraid?
YES! WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT FALSE MURDER ACCUSATIONS ARE YOU INSANE?
Then why aren’t we discussing that? But also, what are you doing to put yourself in the situation where you could be falsely accused of murder (besides having an offwhite skin tone, of course)?
My point being, we should also be afraid of stray bullets coming from the sky. Or cardiovascular disease. Or drunk driving.
Lots to be afraid of. are we prioritizing correctly though? When looking at statistics, it seems we probably shouldn’t sweat the false rape or murder accusations, unless we are doing shit which might make sense where we were accused. In that case, what are we doing, boys?
I... Yes. Yes these are all problems. Yes, they should all be addressed. You're being incredibly disingenuous with your arguments, and allow me to add, heavily condescending by your liberal use of the term "boys" in this context. I legitimately don't believe you're capable of arguing in good faith about this. But, in closing, allow me to speak plainly. To wit, a false accusation with actions behind it functionally ends a life. The life of the accused ends that day. They may continue living, but no longer in the same capacity. We should have a higher bar than a single party accusation to end the life of another. If you do not believe that to be the case, then that speaks volumes more about your mindset than the issue at hand.
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man.
You mean to say, you don’t have any rebuttle to what I’m saying. Name one case where I’m arguing in bad faith. Maybe I just need to explain myself further.
I wouldn’t ask for anything else from you.
Agreed. Also things which “functionally ends a life”:
Yeah, I understood what you meant by “functionally ends a life”, please consider the list I have provided (all things which happen orders of magnatude more than men being falsely accused, let alone imprisoned because of a crime they didn’t commit.
Careful what you wish for here. The bar is already pretty high, and you’re sowing more FUD trying to convince people that they should be more concerned being falsely imprisoned from a rape accusation than concerned for the actual people raped. and sending the rapist to jail.
Your vague bar of “single party accusation” is lower than the current legal standard for imprisoning someone for rape. That’s my point. You’re spreading FUD saying that isn’t.
This isn't a fear thing. This a "what's right" thing. Your statement falls apart the second you apply it to any other social situation. What about applying that to two gay men? I guess they just need to implode as they are both and neither of what you villanize and empathize with. Two women? What about applying this view to race? It just doesn't work. Equality is equality. If it is unbalanced it simply makes the situation worse for all parties. This is precisely why I made my closing statement. Should I not defend a man being beaten because he is a man? I should defend a person being beaten because it is wrong. period.
It’s not about what’s right though, because this topic is about the number of times WOMEN are raped, (which kits go unprocessed, which MEN disbelieve). is that right? should we allow rape kits to go unprocessed and create a culture of fear around the idea that something which happens so rarely? Like guys there are women who kill their partners, wouldn’t you think that would be a little more terrifying? I bet the statistics of that happening are even higher than the statistics of being falsely accused of rape as a man.
I am making the gender distinction because in our society it is relevant. want to talk about two women or two men where one is falsely accused of rape? ok but wouldn’t that statistic be even lower?
guys should we fear ants? ants in large numbers could kill you know.
guys?
So that makes it okay? Not your problem? What about raped men? Sorry we lack 'kits' for that. Cowboy up.
My assertions are that rape is bad. On this we agree.
Rape accusations are bad too. By definition rape is a violation of your person, deeply damaging, and can leave someone permanently mentally scarred for their life:
I wonder if that false accusation resulted in that exact thing to the man? Nah. Doesn't matter. Cowboy up. I'm sorry - we fundamentally disagree on this. No person deserves inequal treatment. People are capable of unthinkable acts of cruelty: sex, race, religion is irrelevant. This story is an example of that. Broaden your views. Apologists make the problem worse, not better.
You’re strawmanning my argument. Men are raped, and that’s a concern. The way society views men who are raped as less than men is a problem. Get your head out of your ass and stick to the topic: why should we create a culture of fear around something (false rape accusations against men from women) that does happen but happens so rarely that it’s only really ever brought up to propagandize?
I am highlighting your own statement and showing you the flaw in your reasoning. Your response to every single person you've engaged in this thread is "strawman," which isn't correct. A good strawman would be to say: yeah it's a shame that guy's situation but... (insert diversion). Ponder that for a moment.
As I said. We agree in rape being awful... as we should. My views are unbiased. We won't agree on this.
To your point on rape kits: 'rape kits' are multi part examinations. They ascertain if the party had sex. They look for "evidence" of the partner. They look for indications of injuries. They record a statement. The issue lies in all of this data being circumstantial. This isn't some silver bullet that you think it is. Being an apologist for someone because, arbitrarily, bureaucracy and resources are a problem is a terrible platform to stand on. Which of us has our head buried in something here?
You’re arguing against rape kits now? wild. Should we institute mandatory body cams for all women now?
You’re saying a man’s semen being in a woman when the woman said she did not want the man’s semen in her is not evidence of her being raped?
Absolutely wild, my man.
If that is what you gathered from what I said you are either a troll or beyond the point of being conversational with. Either way- I hope you find peace.
I gathered that you are spreading misinformation. I gathered that you decided you has nothing to reply with that wouldn’t admit that I am correct so you called me a troll. I gathered that you misunderstood how people have been strawmanning my argument.
I replied to the most obscene part of your comment first. No rebuttle? I hope you find peace.
Alright, I'll let you entertain me more.
Let's start with your assertions that I am spreading misinformation: quote the statement. Explain your reasoning for believing that. If you cannot? Further conversation isn't possible and you'll have only reinforced my earlier assessment of you.
Assuming we can clarify your assessment of my statement we can continue to play. Your move.
Rape kits take samples of DNA. DNA is a type of evidence known as “real evidence”.
You can’t just say, universally that all rape kits are circumstantial. Doing so would be misinformation.
Yes, the last link was pasted from wikipedia. If you’ve got a better source that says that all rape kit data is circumstantial, please provide it. Until then, I think the people’s encyclopedia is good enough for the sake of our discussion.
For reference: https://www.surviverape.org/forensics/sexual-assault-forensics/rape-exam
Educate yourself.
If you find fault in its information... I'm happy to cite other sources... but you will need to specifically point out what invalidates it.
Very good. That aligns with what I said.
All evidence is circumstantial. DNA confirms the presence of a person. Hair and bodily fluids all indicate the presence of a person. Certainly that can include sex. Sex however does not immediately indicate rape - thus circumstances matter. This defines it as (wait for it) circumstantial evidence.
Now that we have clarified this basic fact: I cannot help but notice you have somehow not pointed out one incorrect thing with my statement. I'll forgive you for getting lost in your hand waving- care to try again?
Providing a link and saying “educate yourself” does not refute this claim. The link doesn’t even mention circumstantial evidence, which is what you are claiming.
Please provide evidence of your claim that all rape kits are circumstantial evidence.
You only need to cite one reputable source. But it has to actually validate your claim is the thing.
So your new claim is that all evidence is circumstantial. Ok, you now have 2 claims to prove.
Well, you haven’t done that yet, but keep trying, champ!
https://www.egattorneys.com/circumstantial-evidence-in-criminal-cases
You can pick through that if you like. I've been plenty clear about everything up to this point where you have, at best, resorted to mimicry.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/imitation-is-the-sincerest-form-of-flattery
Compliment received. Thank you.
I'll be happy to reengage you if you can provide something worth discussing. But I could have the current discussion path you've fallen down with a parrot.
I don’t give a shit about debating you bro. I just want you to believe the women in your life when they tell you that they’ve been raped.
Fuck’s sake man. Get over yourself.
This was never a debate. This was the systematic destruction of someone who was either a mid troll at worst or someone virtue signalling at best.
I'm certain all womankind is thankful for your service. You've been a beacon of light in this thread.
As I said before-
genuinely: I hope you find peace.
You’re trolling, right now you do realize.
Shut the fuck up man, if you have something to say say it. Don’t cower out of this.
As I said before- genuinely: I hope you find peace.
Shannon L. Alder
Class and control < Not being a misogynst.
Considering your fractured view of the world I'm impressed you managed to find your way back.
Equality is none of these things. Further- I respect women enough to not impose the view that they are some "delicate flower that must be sheltered" upon them. Doing so is a disservice, and frankly, is looking down on them.
It seems it was virtue signalling after all.
You continue to strawman my positions. You are claiming that we should treat “women as delicate flowers” which is your words, not mine. I never said anything of the sort.
When your daughter tells you that she’s been raped, I want you to not have to take her to court to prove that she’s been raped. I want you to believe her, because she’s telling the truth.
You guys really enjoy showing the internet your red flags, don’t you?
Please message me privately if you want any advice on wooing women in your life, or just having sex. It’s crystal clear you need the advice. You don’t deserve it, but you sure as hell need it.
I've lost count of how many times you've constructed the very thing you're suggesting I've used.
A reminder:
The example here is constantly "constructing" a scenario such as, in this case, a party close to me is getting raped... "constructing" a situation from that and attacking it instead.
Continue wishing rape on women you claim to protect. You have demonstrated, once again, you are a beacon of light for all womankind. Bravo.
I'm good friend. You have as much a chance of explaining astrophysics to me as providing good advice on any of that. Both are equally outside your grasp.
...And I'm happy to continue to keep this out of DMs as you seem to enjoy the public humiliation.
How hard is it to understand my main position, bro?
“most women have been raped. most men don’t believe it when women are raped because these old posts get trotted out. Believe women”
That’s it.
It’s not:
And my guy…
It’s super embarrasing that I have to keep pointing this out to you. When you misrepresent my positions into positions that are easier for you to attack such as the ones you’ve pointed out - see “it’s not” list above), you are building up a strawman to attack because you don’t want to address my points.
You’ve yet to address my points. You’re continously strawmanning my points into ones you want to attack and attacking those, then you’re defining the very thing I’m telling you that you’re doing.. and you’re still not seeing how you’re doing it.
Amazing, my guy. And you think I’m the one who should be embarassed.
Offer recinded. You’re going to have to stumble through that shit when you’re older, kid. Maybe once you reach highschool.
I'll be brief: if you took one quarter the time it took to write out that manifestation of self pity and anger and looked around at this thread- you've done nothing but pick fights and make accusations. The responses you've gotten are a clear indication of something. Maybe think about that.
I'd continue entertaining this conversation, but in my experience with children- they reach a point where they abandon reason and argue just for the sake of it.
Take some time to factor in you've had to make massive edits and ask yourself why that is. Perhaps objectively read what you've been writing. I won't be around for it but I sincerely hope you learn from it. Find peace, friend.
It’s overly clear to me that you the only women who are going to exist in your life are the ones you rape and sexually abuse. You’ll never find peace, and people like me will make sure that you don’t.
I asked you to believe your wife, your daughter, your mother, your grandmother when they tell you that they have been raped.
Statistically, you already know women who have been raped or sexually assaulted. I am asking you to stop being a monster, trying to get them to go to court just to prove to you that they’ve been raped.
I am simply asking you to believe them, because they’ve been raped and they are asking for your support.
And you’re fighting me on this, calling me a white knight, saying that I wish women to be raped, etc. The only thing I can gather from this is that you’re a rapist appoligist because you are infact a rapist.