this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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Dutch beach volleyball player Steven van de Velde, who served time in prison after he was convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl, won his second match at the Paris Olympics and received an even harsher reaction from the crowd on Wednesday than for his first match.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 3 months ago (18 children)

I think it is important to distinguish the innocent partner here. Beach volleyball is incredibly demanding, and at the elite level, a very low population sport. It takes athletes their whole careers to just to make the world tour hoping to one day reach the olympics. For Immers he has busted his ass for years and at some point his national body probably paired him up with the other guy. It’s possible he may not have even known about it until they were partners and had established their dynamic and working relationship. Finding and building a team with a partner you click with on the court is hard-earned. I can imagine that Immers is absolutely distraught at the situation he’s been put in. He has a crappy choice here no matter what. Abandon what he’s spent his whole career building up to, now that he’s made it - because of something he had nothing to do with, knowing he may never get this chance again, even if he were to find another available partner… it takes years to learn how to play as a team; or he sucks it up, focuses on his own journey, cops the reflected criticism and hostility and tries to keep his emotions out of it…

It’s shitty either way. He abandons his dream because of someone else’s actions; or he chases them and becomes collateral damage.

Don’t get me started on the poor kid whose life was never the same again, having all this trauma dredged up and shoved back in her face. There’s nothing about this that doesn’t suck.

[–] [email protected] 93 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (9 children)

I think it is important to distinguish the innocent partner here

Then he can stop bitching that people are booing his partner who raped a fucking 12 year old.

Pick a lane, "no comment" or acknowledge what he did and ask for forgiveness.

This is literally the Dutch team complaining that people are booing, and refusing to acknowledge an incredibly valid reason why it's happening.

Fuck em both.

Like you said, it's a small population of players. Even if this guy was #1 in the Netherlands, if #2 thru 25 said they won't play with a child rapist, the child rapist wouldn't be on the team.

Don’t get me started on the poor kid whose life was never the same again, having all this trauma dredged up and shoved back in her face. There’s nothing about this that doesn’t suck.

You think she forgot till now?

You think she doesn't know his name?

Why is the issue talking about how he's a child rapist and not that the child rapist is in the goddamn Olympics?

Quick edit:

It’s shitty either way. He abandons his dream because of someone else’s actions; or he chases them and becomes collateral damage.

We don't call people heroes for doing the right thing because it's easy and sacrifice free.

But we do call people shit bags for doing the wrong thing for personal gain/glory.

Which is what we're doing here.

Except you, you're out here complaining people booed a guy who raped a 12 year old.

Why?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 months ago (7 children)

I don’t think that guy’s really complaining about the booing, I think he’s trying to separate the rapist from the other competitors.

I don’t know the case, and I’m very surprised the Netherlands let this guy compete for them, but he is and apparently served prison time (not as much as he probably should’ve). If he’s already served a prison sentence, then the Netherlands government probably believes he has been punished for the crime and is “rehabilited”. If he’s served time, double jeopardy applies to any punishment he would receive after the fact (IIRC).

I don’t know the rapist and I don’t care about him, I’d hope he’s incredibly remorseful and I’m not defending what he did, but like the OP was driving at; why are the actions of the rapist POS who served prison time tainting the other athletes competing for their own interests / country that legally posits the guy has been punished for his actions? Imagine being proud of your work and being booed because of the previous unrelated actions of a coworker you may or may not like.

If murderers are able to serve their prison sentence and be freed after their crime and feel remorse for their actions etc., at what point in time does someone stop being punished for their previous actions? I’m bringing up the rhetorical question in response to the common vitriol in comments surrounding sex crimes that bleeds onto anyone involved.

Unless you believe in the death penalty and that the rapist deserved to die for his actions by the hands of his government, what does it take for everyone to move forward? I ask because you’re positing the other Netherland’s athlete is essentially guilty because he didn’t risk his Olympic ambitions and refuse to play with the rapist who legally served his sentence.

How long he should’ve been in prison is another debate.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's not how double Double Jeopardy works (Netherlands also has a different name for it). It prevents you from being tried twice for a crime for which you've been acquitted/convicted. It does not prevent a country from refusing to have you represent them on the world stage.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It is actually how it works in terms of official punishments(in the US at least):

Amdt5.2.1.2.4 Imposition of Multiple Punishments for the Same Offense

Fifth Amendment:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Double Jeopardy Clause protects against imposition of multiple punishment for the same offense.1 The application of the principle leads, however, to a number of complexities. In a simple case, it was held that where a court inadvertently imposed both a fine and imprisonment for a crime for which the law authorized one or the other but not both, it could not, after the fine had been paid and the defendant had entered his short term of confinement, recall the defendant and change its judgment by sentencing him to imprisonment only.2 But the Court has held that the imposition of a sentence does not from the moment of imposition have the finality that a judgment of acquittal has. Thus, it has long been recognized that in the same term of court and before the defendant has begun serving the sentence the court may recall him and increase his sentence.

Obviously not being picked for an olympic team isnt an official punishment, but the principle of not punishing someone for the same crime after they complete their given sentence is true.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/double_jeopardy#:~:text=The%20Double%20Jeopardy%20Clause%20in,for%20substantially%20the%20same%20crime.

From the US, but the philosophical reasoning still applies.

You misunderstand the point. The Netherlands did not stop him from competing for them, presumably because he’s served his time for the crime by their standards.

That’s your problem with the Netherland’s Olympic committee then, not the other athletes - the whole point of the post.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What point am I misunderstanding? You claimed double jeopardy applies. It does not. Not representing your country in the Olympics does not count as an official punishment for the same act.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The point is he was punished and likely contributed to him not being barred from Olympic participation. Ignore the double jeopardy statement then, engage with the actual discussion about the non rapist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If you think the 19 year old having sex repeadly with a 13 year old is a "non rapist" then that says a lot about you and none of it good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

You clearly cannot read lmao

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