Communism

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Protestation (discuss.tchncs.de)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I mean that socialism sound great on paper, but actual attempts fail terribly, and it's always someone else's fault, or this or that extenuating circumstance.

What specifically do you mean when Socialist attempts "fail terribly?" I am not going to erase the struggles faced in AES countries, but I am also not going to erase their successes. Do you have examples you want to look at, specifically? Vague gesturing isn't helpful.

If socialism works, I encourage you to go about living a socialistic life. Which is difficult in many environments, because it's a difficult thing to implement well - whereas for capitalism, you just need to offer to trade people this for that, and things snowball.

What good would this do? Marxism rejects this kind of moralistic utopianism, simply acting in a Socialist manner will not eliminate Capitalism nor would it bring about Socialism. I think this reveals a lack of understanding of what Socialists want, and why.

That said, capitalism sucks, and we need to do things in a way that actually meets the needs that socialism promises to fulfill, but does poorly at actually fulfilling.

Again, why do you say Socialism does "poorly at actually fulfilling" needs? Do you have examples with metrics we can look at?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism

Which particular actually existing socialism are you referring to as being functional and not actually capitalistic?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There's not really a list there, but generally, places like Cuba, what once was the USSR, Vietnam, Laos, the PRC, etc. There are also Socialist-adjacent areas like Chiapas and Rojava.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Cuba is a great example of where socialism shines. The government is small enough and the culture is contiguous enough that it's a take good option there. Good call.

What one was the USSR led to what now is Russia - many States being away and associating to greater degrees with the west, and corruption spreading like a plague. Not that the US is doing well on that front right now, but it has lasted slightly longer than the USSR without becoming total shitshow. We're getting there, though.

Capitalism can, with a discontiguous culture, 'hold it together' longer than socialism can in a similar situation before shitting the bed - particularly when there are options for some socialistic services present.

PRC isn't precisely a shining example of socialism, but is doing a great job of adopting a lot of ideas from capitalism. If any nation sorts out the balance of socialism and capitalism via praxis, it will be the PRC. Their human rights record isn't great, though, and really doesn't seem any better than western counterparts. I can accept that the PRC is a power, but I don't think it truly fits socialism, regardless of its roots.

Again, though - cultural contiguity is really key to really successful truly socialistic states - but that has greater difficulty dealing with diversity - and that shows in larger states, where excessive cultural colonization occurs (as with the PRC), or corruption results.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Cuba is a great example of where socialism shines. The government is small enough and the culture is contiguous enough that it's a take good option there. Good call.

Thank you.

What one was the USSR led to what now is Russia - many States being away and associating to greater degrees with the west, and corruption spreading like a plague. Not that the US is doing well on that front right now, but it has lasted slightly longer than the USSR without becoming total shitshow. We're getting there, though.

The USSR beat the current Russian Federation on nearly every quality of life metric until recently. The RF is not a consequence of the USSR, but of the killing of the USSR. The USSR, like Cuba, was good for the vast majority of citizens.

Capitalism can, with a discontiguous culture, 'hold it together' longer than socialism can in a similar situation before shitting the bed - particularly when there are options for some socialistic services present.

Actually ahistorical, the USSR was far more resiliant in times of crisis. The USSR didn't collapse, so much as it was killed from within. It had issues, all states do, but it was not in a time of crisis.

PRC isn't precisely a shining example of socialism, but is doing a great job of adopting a lot of ideas from capitalism. If any nation sorts out the balance of socialism and capitalism via praxis, it will be the PRC. Their human rights record isn't great, though, and really doesn't seem any better than western counterparts. I can accept that the PRC is a power, but I don't think it truly fits socialism, regardless of its roots.

The PRC is a transitional Socialist economy. It has a very large public sector, and though it is no longer Maoist, it is still Socialist overall. You may wish to read China Has Billionaires.